Aims and goals :
1) A group effort to create an improved base sauce, and madras recipe to go with it.
I think most were in agreement that the Taz base was the one to use?Taz's base (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4163.0) is fine by me; I see that it already includes oil, as had recently been discussed here, and is a simple straightforward base, so I am happy to go with it.
I'm already doing the Taz base but, to get the best from it, would we follow the reduction method, as Mick suggest's?
Ray :)
Hi all,
This base as it stands should be used with Taz's method
why b flexible? daft idea - so many recipes on here with people going i added this and added that - lets start off with the way its intended plz for once in this forums life !!!!
Guy's,
Can I suggest that, first off, we use the Taz base and the Taz mix, using the Taz method, then, we could use the same ingredients to do the, fry off method and see what the major differences are, if any?
I know from experience, that if you fry off the garlic, ginger, spices tom puree (in that order) before any base goes in, you DO end up with a very oily curry. It's no problem for me because I love to spoon off the excess and use for my next curry but I would say that using the fry method, really intensifies the tomato flavour, perhaps a little too much!
Whaddya think?
Ray :)
Hi Ray,
...snip...
How about Chewy's recently posted madras recipe:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5376.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5376.0)
I've no idea what temps spices cook at but I would suggest, not very high for not very long.
I also think how we heat spices makes a difference too! Simply boiling them doesn't work (unless they're whole spices of course) the ground spices tend not to dissolve and leave a gritty texture.
However, boiling them in a base sauce that contains about 3 tbsp of oil per 300ml of base, as the Taz base does, works fine.
a) We use the whole spices as the spec recipe
b) We measure out the whole spices as the spec recipe, roast, then grind to powder
c) We measure out the whole spices as the spec recipe and grind without roasting
d) We just use packet, ground spices
My problem with d) is, will 1 tbs of whole coriander produce 1 tbs of gound coriander? Until we know what equates from turning whole spoces in to ground spices, we may not add the correct amounts.
I would conjecture in advance that I am unlikely to get much more than 0,6 teaspoons ground coriander from 1 teaspoon seeds
So I guess Pauls suggestion of 1.5 tbs of whole spice should roughly equate to 1 tbs of ground?Well, the "scraping losses" are more-or-less constant, so I would expect to get proportionally more by grinding 1.5 tbsp whole spice than by grinding 1.5 tsp; even so, as an approximation, that ratio sounds close enough to me.
Of-course in the future we can revisit this, but surely we should start out at the same place?Completely agree; I just thought we were discussing which place that was :)
Would probably be polite to wait and see if Achmal has a suggestion or two and then set up a poll with those suggestions on it too?
Didn't mean to put any kind of implied abrupt stop to the discussions, just my humble opinion and suggestion at this point :)
Very nearly missed your edited post with your grinding experiment (the trouble with editing I guess)Sorry, a bad habit out of which I must get :(
Quite interesting, so, If I understand this right, you managed to get, approx, 4 tsp of ground coriander from 4.5 tsp of whole?
Did you try the experiment with the cumin too. I'm thinking that that would be slightly closer to the quantity of whole cumin seeds.
if its ok i would like to join in on this,
1) Are we using whole or ground spices?
2) Are we using the 400ml of oil as per recipe or more/less.
Im finally moving back oop north
Nice one :)
Hi Paul,
Interesting post, and a subject that we really need to understand a bit better.
I've no idea what temps spices cook at but I would suggest, not very high for not very long. It's so easy to burn spices. The reduction method virtually takes all the risk away, great for newbies to BIR cooking.
I also think how we heat spices makes a difference too! Simply boiling them doesn't work (unless they're whole spices of course) the ground spices tend not to dissolve and leave a gritty texture. However, boiling them in a base sauce that contains about 3 tbsp of oil per 300ml of base, as the Taz base does, works fine.
Anyway, are we settled on the Taz Base, Taz Mix, and TAZ method, for the first test? All's we need now, is a Madras to try this with!
Perhaps Achmal/Mick would like to suggest a Madras recipe that he may have tried using the Taz combo?
Ray :)
P.S, Just a quick thought. I struggled to blend down the coriander and cumin seeds with this base, and often picked up a bit of husk in the final dish. I spoke with Mick, and he confirmed that he now uses ground spices. So, Are we all going to do the same? The options being;
a) We use the whole spices as the spec recipe
b) We measure out the whole spices as the spec recipe, roast, then grind to powder
c) We measure out the whole spices as the spec recipe and gind without roasting
d) We just use packet, ground spices
My problem with d) is, will 1 tbs of whole coriander produce 1 tbs of gound coriander? Until we know what equates from turning whole spoces in to ground spices, we may not add the correct amounts.
Ray :)
Hi SP,
I'm fine to go with the recipe as spec first off. I will give it a wizz with my hand blender this time.
So, for the Madras, do we need to pick ten of the "most popular" and set up a poll? or, should we wait for Achmal to offer a suggestion, afterall, it is his/Taz's base?
Ray
I will say though, that I need to find a new favourite TA, because this combination absolutely shat on their Madras without a second thought!Now that is the best news in a long while ;D
Thanks to Mick for the recipe - I look forward to trying soon. The only question I have is whether it will be madras hot with 1.5 tsp of deggi mirch. I've got an unopened box of the stuff but don't know how hot it is.
I've been using Natco hot chilli powder and 2 tsp does not produce the heat of a typical madras. I would estimate a whole tablespoon would be required.
One more question for SP - are you using spiced oil or regular oil both for the base and final cook?
I will say though, that I need to find a new favourite TA, because this combination absolutely shat on their Madras without a second thought!Now that is the best news in a long while ;D
** Phil.
IMO the Deggi powder that I have tried seemed to be quite mild, really just a hot Paprika? - we may need to discuss this further!
They are both described as chilli powder, but for me, the kashmiri mirch IS more like paprika, whereas the Deggi mirch is the hotter one!That would also fit with Chef Harpal Singh Sokhi's recommendations, where he talks about using Kashmiri ground chillies for their colour, not for their heat (i.e., one can add more Kashmiri ground chillies to a dish, in order to get a more saturated red colour, than with other hotter ground chillies such as Deggi Mirch). MDH themselves have this to say :
DEGGI MIRCH .......................................................... Red Chilli Powder for Curries
Deggi Mirch is a unique, age old blend, processed from special varieties of colourful Indian red chillies. It is mild-hot and imparts glowing natural red colour to curried dishes making them attractive and more palatable. For best results fry chopped onions in oil till golden. Then add chopped tomatoes and Deggi Mirch. Stir till it is homogenised, and imparts the red colour. Then proceed with your normal cooking. If not using tomatoes, reduce flame, add Deggi Mirch and as soon as it imparts colour, proceed further.
Ingredients : Red Chilli Powder
KASHMIRI MIRCH .................................................... Red Chilli Powder for Curries
Exotic Kashmiri Mirch is a special blend of medium hot quality Red Pepper that is used for Tandoori (Clay oven) preparations. When used in curry it imparts bright red colour making food more appealing and palatable. It is added to marinade for marinating and to frying onions along with chopped tomatoes while preparing curries.
Hi Mick
Is the Methi in powdered or leaf form please?
Hi SP, I appreciate you taking time to do the side-by-side comparison of fry first versus reduction on it's own.
It kind of blows Bruce Edwards advice out of the water, something I have suspected for some time. I've watched loads of youtube videos of traditional Indian cooking and they are extremely cautious about frying spice powders and always quick to add water to the frying spices to stop them from burning.
Thanks to Mick for the recipe - I look forward to trying soon. The only question I have is whether it will be madras hot with 1.5 tsp of deggi mirch. I've got an unopened box of the stuff but don't know how hot it is.
I've been using Natco hot chilli powder and 2 tsp does not produce the heat of a typical madras. I would estimate a whole tablespoon would be required.
Also, when using this much chilli powder do we drop back on the spice mix quantity?
One more question for SP - are you using spiced oil or regular oil both for the base and final cook?
Cheers,
Paul
Deggi mirch is quite hot. Blimey im looking forward to this :)
Its quite exciting to think that we could be setting a standard here for a uk madras recipe.
ok i have made the base to the letter. i love the huge amount of oil content. its like no other base i have made (in terms of oil) .
(1)when i make the 1st curry do i add the 1st lot of base and reduce down to almost nothing ( a crust ) or do you need to stop it totally drying out.
2) should the temperature be at high from start to finish?
3) is the cooking time about 10 mins or less?
4) is the aim to reduce the 2nd lot of base as much as the 1 st lot ?
cheers DD
ok i have made the base to the letter. i love the huge amount of oil content. its like no other base i have made (in terms of oil) .
(1)when i make the 1st curry do i add the 1st lot of base and reduce down to almost nothing ( a crust ) or do you need to stop it totally drying out.
2) should the temperature be at high from start to finish?
3) is the cooking time about 10 mins or less?
4) is the aim to reduce the 2nd lot of base as much as the 1 st lot ?
cheers DD
you said that the paste separates from the oil?
So that puts the "Madras 2011 Quest" to bed, I guess; what next, chaps ?!
I'm feeling you have been more enthusiastic about this curry than in other posts Ray, even though you have produced results you have been satisfied with before.
I am very pleased that you have obviously got the method correct.
Let's hope the image hosting gets fixed and we can see Ray's photos.
If so how would I size it up for say a 4 person meal, don't want to make 4 separate curry's does one.
...snip...
Anyway, I will give it a go, once I've got through the 9 litres of Taz base that I've made ;D
Ray :)
Hi Mads, congatulations on your first post mate :)
On the first reduction, I didn't know how far to go but based on Mick's(Achmal) suggestion, I went as far as I could before the whole thing got ruined. It's actually quite easy to do once you know what your aiming for. I'd like Mick to take a look at the pictures though just to confirm whether I went to far, or it looks about right.
Hi Will,
It's definitely worth a try. I'm so happy with it that for me, madras is conquered lol ;D
The quantites listed here are for a single portion. It's really the only way to cook most of the BIR curries. I know it sounds a pain but you can cook 4 lots of this sauce in about 10 minutes a go and then transfer each sauce to a bigger pan.Sorry, been otherwise occupied, so replying a bit late. I'm surprised to read that you believe that BIR curries can be successfully made only in single portions : I usually cook enough for two, and I can't in all honesty say that one of my double-size curries tastes any worse or any better than one of my single-size.
So do i just double everything up! including the spices?
Also is this recipe according to the forum's opinion a versatile base ie:- suitable for ALL styles of curry's from Korma to Vindaloos?
am contemplating buying a madras from my local takeaway for taste and visual comparisons.
The quantites listed here are for a single portion. It's really the only way to cook most of the BIR curries. I know it sounds a pain but you can cook 4 lots of this sauce in about 10 minutes a go and then transfer each sauce to a bigger pan.Sorry, been otherwise occupied, so replying a bit late. I'm surprised to read that you believe that BIR curries can be successfully made only in single portions : I usually cook enough for two, and I can't in all honesty say that one of my double-size curries tastes any worse or any better than one of my single-size.
** Phil.
I beg to differ on this one Ray,
In the mains recipes for lamb dopiaza this was mentioned, and you can see it on the video
Quote from: moonster on January 12, 2011, 08:12:26 PM
Mick,
what was that light coloured base to the right of the main dish?
thanks for your quick reply
Alan
Hi Alan,
The pan to the right of the dopiaza was a wok containing 3 chicken kormas reducing down to the right consistency not a base.
Regards,
Mick
Hi Hotstuff,
I stand corrected mate ;D
With that said, yes, I can see it working for korma because you don't have any spices as such that need cooking. Essentially, with a korma, you are basically just boiling it anyway. If you check out the Dipuraja videos, he demonstrates how to cook a korma, and its basically, everything into a cold pan, and boil down to the correct consistency.
However, on the more robust curries such as madras, jal frezi, dupiaza and so on, you need to reduce the first lot of base long enough for the spices to get fried in the remaining oil. Could you imagine trying to scale up x 4, and adapt the reduction method?
You would need to reduce down 800ml of base :o It would take forever!
I'm not completely ruling out up-scaling, I just think it will be very difficult and quite lengthy to do, using this reduction method.
If you want to use the fry method, then I don't see a problem, as you are frying/cooking the spices, garlic, tom puree and so on, at the very beginning, however, I wouldn't use the Taz base if you are going to use the fry method because your end dish will drowned with oil :(
Hope that explains where I'm coming from mate :)
Ray :)
Be carefull with the salt.
Be carefull with the salt.
Why do you say that? You have me worried. The Taz base sauce is 20 mins into the 1hr boil, as I write this. I've scaled back the quantities by half but I put in the full quantity of salt by mistake. I was able to scoop out most of the excess and hope the slight over-seasoning of the base doesn't harm the Madras which will follow. If the Madras specifies any salt, I can probably leave it out.
I used used 2 tsp of deggi mirch and the heat level was identical to my local TA.
Job done! I made Mick's Madras (with Razors tweeks) using Taz's base and what a fantastic result. Best BIR curry I have ever made (3 years of trying). I purchased a madras from a TA just around the corner from where I live, got home and cooked my curry.
Visually they looked almost the same, mine was a bit smoother and had better texture but more importantly tasted much better. They were evenly spiced and both had the same depth of flavour but mine was less sweet and had a bit more of a tomato taste to it.
There is no way I will consider buying another Madras from this TA as mine was tastier - first time I can say that!
I have a few pics and will try to work out how to post.
Mine on the Left - Sorry picture is a bit naff
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g382/titchy1/curry034.jpg)
Looks really good,
BUT is this base suitable for all other curry styles, or just the madras, (which seems a shame if it is)
Les (Trainee)
as I've never had a Madras from a BIR (!) I don't have much to go on.
After the amount of time you have in on this forum and the amount of curry you seem to have cooked and consumed.....that statement was a bit of a shocker!
AS for starting at the beginning, well, that would mean throwing away years of CR0 users recipes in essence. There are, as this has proved, recipes here that are very nearly perfect, by bringing it into the limelight and having many of us use it surely it wont be long before it progresses into something even closer to perfect.
Looks really good,
BUT is this base suitable for all other curry styles, or just the madras, (which seems a shame if it is)
Les (Trainee)
Hi Les,
You can make any curry with the Taz base e.g. korma, ctm etc.
The only downside is that for curries using added cream you will have more oil/fat content than is really required for creamy dishes. It tastes fine but the calorie count will be higher than is necessary for the flavour.
Cheers,
Paul
Hi George, for the sake of a fiver i would go and buy a Madras, or chicken curry. Its worth it for the taste comparison.
I'm sure there are many dishes on a BIR menu which each of you will have have ordered - Korma, for example. For me, I've never ordered or tasted BIR Madras. It's just one of those things.It is a shame that there is no obvious way of running a poll on this forum (unless I've missed it) : it would be very interesting to know that members' preferences are when it comes to eating BIR in a restaurant or from a takeway. I will start a thread (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5410.msg53530#msg53530) on "Let's talk curry".
I think that's the beauty of this recipe, you can easily identify the gaps and adjust to suit.
unlike this oil-laden chicken madras!
Hi George,
I think that's the beauty of this recipe, you can easily identify the gaps and adjust to suit. That's exactly what I did on my second effort, tweaked it ever so slightly, and got virtually a clone of my local TA's madras.
Ray :)
This madras should have roughly the same amount of oil in the final curry as most other Madras's.The base has a higher oil content than most but that is offset by not adding oil as you would if you fried your garlic, spices etc in the 'normal' method.
Mick
The only question I have is whether it will be madras hot with 1.5 tsp of deggi mirch. I've got an unopened box of the stuff but don't know how hot it is.
I've been using Natco hot chilli powder and 2 tsp does not produce the heat of a typical madras. I would estimate a whole tablespoon would be required.
Also, when using this much chilli powder do we drop back on the spice mix quantity?
This madras should have roughly the same amount of oil in the final curry as most other Madras's.The base has a higher oil content than most but that is offset by not adding oil as you would if you fried your garlic, spices etc in the 'normal' method.
Mick
Yes, the oil in the final curry looked about the same as you'd get with a BIR curry, i.e. excessive, so the recipe looks spot on from that point of view. Nobody ever said BIR curries are healthy.
I made this at the weekend, and it was 2 steps back for me. it was sickly sweet , far to oily , and a horid texture. nothing like the madras at my 2 favourite bir.
I made this at the weekend, and it was 2 steps back for me. it was sickly sweet
the 2 bir chefs i know, use far less oil.
If you like battered sausages and fried mars bars then it might be your thing.
For my own research and development, can anybody else say that they have found the resultant curry to be sickly sweet with a horrid texture?
i assure you it was made correctly. but isnt 6 tennis ball sized onions to 400 ml of oil an awful lot of oil. even by my standards its alot. and i always use lots of oil per curry. The base tasted very nice after i made it. nice flavour. but when i actually cooked with it, i was spooning off far to much oil. it oozes oil, in a way i never witnessed in the bir kitchen i visited. i accept he had a different style of making base, but each to their own i guess. I have spent 3 years practicing the bengual type method of curry making, where little oil is added to the base, (as taught to me by a bir chef) i then add lots of oil at the curry making stage. I guess i am interested in finding like minded members on this forum , who also advocate this approach.
i assure you it was made correctly. but isnt 6 tennis ball sized onions to 400 ml of oil an awful lot of oil. even by my standards its alot. and i always use lots of oil per curry. The base tasted very nice after i made it. nice flavour. but when i actually cooked with it, i was spooning off far to much oil. it oozes oil, in a way i never witnessed in the bir kitchen i visited. i accept he had a different style of making base, but each to their own i guess. I have spent 3 years practicing the bengual type method of curry making, where little oil is added to the base, (as taught to me by a bir chef) i then add lots of oil at the curry making stage. I guess i am interested in finding like minded members on this forum , who also advocate this approach.
i assure you it was made correctly. but isnt 6 tennis ball sized onions to 400 ml of oil an awful lot of oil. even by my standards its alot. and i always use lots of oil per curry. The base tasted very nice after i made it. nice flavour. but when i actually cooked with it, i was spooning off far to much oil. it oozes oil, in a way i never witnessed in the bir kitchen i visited. i accept he had a different style of making base, but each to their own i guess. I have spent 3 years practicing the bengual type method of curry making, where little oil is added to the base, (as taught to me by a bir chef) i then add lots of oil at the curry making stage. I guess i am interested in finding like minded members on this forum , who also advocate this approach.
For my own research and development, can anybody else say that they have found the resultant curry to be sickly sweet with a horrid texture?Nope.
All information is appreciated.
Regards
Mick
i assure you it was made correctly. but isnt 6 tennis ball sized onions to 400 ml of oil an awful lot of oil.Am never too keen on recipes that measures onions like this. By my best judgement my 6 onions weighed 1kg (unpeeled weight).
The Taz base is a little different from many other bases on this site mainly due to what it doesn't contain e.g. no carrot, potato, cabbage, fresh coriander.
I have to say that I have tried Taz's recipe, when it was first posted (and method, and spice mix), and I found the results pretty good (i.e. comparable to many other bases on this forum) but also pretty bland (I'm not sure why DD found it "sickly sweet" though).
The thing that distinguishes my home made curries from the local TA I use seems to be contained in the oil itself. Tasting just a drop of the oil on the side of the plate or the TA container immediately reveals that special quality, a moorish oniony spicy but sweet flavour
Edit: Maybe I didn't read your post properly or you edited it.
Did you feel that the spiced oil recipe from the other site in any way improved on things?
I've tried it twice and no I wouldn't describe it as sweet but it did seem to move me a bit closer. It also had the effect of creating a new imbalance so I had to reduce garlic and spice levels in the final curries.
I really need to know why we are not getting even similar results in some cases? and massively keen to keep some enthusiasm going and prevent us going round in circles.
Hi Guys
These last couple of posts are starting to concern me and raise questions...
There still seems to be and air of general if not considerable disappointment regarding what we have just cooked.
Why are some, still so disappointed when myself and I think Razor have what we believe to be personally as break through moments?
Am I cooking something in a different way to some of you without even knowing it?
Are the restaurants round my way that I have become used to actually rather poor in comparison to your regulars? I still maintain, that what I have produced recently is far superior to my local TA and up there with some of the good restaurants that I know in the local area. It has every smell, taste and quality that is BIR.
I am not saying that it cannot be further improved, of this I am sure it can BTW.
For instance as Paul mentions, the use of spiced oil. Personally I think (I have no proof whatsoever) that most BIR's do not make a dedicated spiced oil, I think it is a by-product of a massive pot of base. This we obviously cannot duplicate in our home kitchens and so a dedicated separate process is necessary.
However, I did not miss the addition of the spiced oil with this last test. It had the smell and taste. As I cook now, I never seem to get a toffee, I do however when the oil and every other component is correct get a sudden change in aroma, like a switch and I know the dish is now ready to start the finishing additions of base etc. Do you all get this 'switch' in aroma?
I really need to know why we are not getting even similar results in some cases? and massively keen to keep some enthusiasm going and prevent us going round in circles.
Regards all
It is also worth remembering that some will not get the method right resulting in what they believe to be an inferior curry
There are those who will never be pleased no matter what
I am glad that you have found something that works so well for you.
George i only removed oil from the final curry after finishing the cooking. the base was left as per the spec for the entire process. nothing went wrong, it was a nice meal, but not my best. and certainly not my worst, about average.
I had the fortune to watch my local bir chef making two meals and the only oil he used was a melted pot of ghee he had balanced on the back of the oven.
No George, it was just a tin of oil, or ghee, it was clearish, if it had been red/orange or another colour i would have asked what it was.
What to do now then? Has everybody who wanted to tried this and reported back?
I can honestly say that if this madras had been served to me in a restaurant, I'd have happily paid a tenner for it, no problem!
Ist point...possibly correct but who would know if the method had been followed correctly?
2nd point...absolutely understood already and feeling just a little patronised..
i removed and saved a fair whack of oil from the finished base before starting the fry-up.
What's all this about spiced oil?
So after 188 posts, What exactly have we achieved here, if anything.
(hope I'm not offending anyone)
Seems to me the only thing that's come out of this experiment is everybody's tastes are different, which we already know.
Not so bad Hotstuff - 2 people have found madras heaven. Quite a few others have been pleasantly surprised by the Taz recipe/method. One member didn't like it at all.
What's missing, to my mind, is any sort of assessment of where any deficiencies (if any) lie (and hence where improvements may be made)?
I totally agree. I'm happy to give another base a go, if the group decided that, that is the way forward but I would much rather try this base to make other curries. Taz himself has a Dupiaza recipe, courtesy of Mick, maybe that one next?
I agree, I think to abandon this base now would be a shame. It almost feels somewhat premature to move on from the Madras
[ I think if everyone is happy to move on from the Madras, Mick's Dopiaza should be the next stop.
OK, planning to prepare the base this afternoon. I assume/hope it is this one (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4163.0); if not, someone please shout before I waste my afternoon !
** Phil.
Great :)
Axe/Stew -- Do either of you have an SMF hack to allow a single message to be printed ? I would like to print Mick/Taz's recipe without risking also printing the following 50 or so messages, and it's not worth cloning it to my web site just for the purposes of printing. I know about "?action=printpage;topic=4163.0" but that still formats the whole d@mned thread for printing :(
All seeds are seeds : only ground turmeric used. ** Phil. |
2" x 1" x 0.25" I would guess in inches.
Yes, 3 1/8 oz ginger; I assumed that 2" x 1" meant 2" long by 1" diameter
Hi
My ginger weighed 40g at 2"x1" and there was no overpowering taste of ginger in the base.
Barry
Phil used 2"x1"x1" and it weighed in at 3.125 ounces or about 87 grams.
Quick but urgent question, Madras 2011 experts : when the recipe calls for 450ml warm base, is the oil to be stirred back in before measuring out the 450ml ? At the moment I have about 1/2" oil floating on the surface ...
** Phil.
All the while, I had misgivings : it just didn't smell right, and I added only three pieces of chicken so as not to waste a whole portion if my misgivings were correct. But, as it turned out, they were not : the resulting dish was, as my wife very accurate put it, "just like a restaurant Madras".
To summarise : I can't go as overboard as Ray, but it certainly has the makings of a good Madras.
What mix is everyone using for their Madras?
I think maybe that puts you in the "pleasantly surprised" category Phil?Well, definitely surprised :) It was much better than I expected while I was cooking it, yet didn't give me a "wow !" moment, which was disappointing because I had expected so much after Ray's rave review. But it could well be that Ray likes a tomato-y Madras, and he probably made a better job of pre-thinning the base so that he could then have the flexibility to reduce it in the final dish back to his preferred consistency. I have lots of base left, so I shall continue to experiment (and occasionally report back).
Not too much ginger then Phil ;)
as my wife very accurately put it, "just like a restaurant Madras".
it could well be that Ray likes a tomato-y Madras
So, tonight, just to confirm it was no fluke, I give it another go. I did however, make a couple of small changes. I reduced the quantity of mix powder from 1 tbsp, to 2 tsp. I also reduced the tom puree from 2 tbsp to 1 tbsp. I replaced the 2 cloves of chopped garlic with 1.5 tsp of my homemade garlic and ginger paste (60:40). I mixed this with the tom puree along with 3 tbsp of water. And finally, I didn't heat up the base as suggested, purely because it's in a massive pot and I didn't fancy heating the whole lot up, just to make 1 curry. Yes, I could have ladled out what I need but I'm a lazy bleeder at times, and didn't want to mess up another pan!
I normally make my Madras curries brown as this is how they are generally served up in my area (NE Scotland). However as I made this for my friend who is up from England, I added a little red colour because that's how they do them where she lives apparently.
I thought I'd knock up a double size 6 litre Taz base. I used whole seeds as I now have a 200 quid pro stick blender and I thought it would be doddle to blend.
Not so - even with 1 horsepower and 18,000 rpm the coriander seed husks are buggers to blend. I'll re-blend it tomorrow morning. Next time I probably won't use whole seeds.
Can't be arsed cooking a curry now tonight.
Paul
For all those who don't believe that the spices cook with the reduction method I'll tell you something I observed:
When I last made a batch of spiced oil and onion/pepper paste I used an oil thermometer throughout the process. We are talking here of 2 litres of oil containing loads of onions, some peppers, whole garlic cloves and 6 tablespoons of spice mix.
During 2 hours of cooking for which the spices were in for the last hour, the oil temperature never exceeded 105 degrees C. Were the spices cooked? They had virtually disappeared leaving only about a tablespoon of red grit at the bottom of the pan. Nothing was burned either, the red grit remaining tasted pretty yummy.
I've searched high and low on the internet for a definition of what temperature is required to cook spices but come up with nothing. It seems that nobody has published the science of this subject.
Paul
@ 976bar,another ?75 and you could have bought a tandoor ;D
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm a bit disappointed my 200 quid blender couldn't do any better than my cheap Braun stick blender. In fact although it is very powerful the blade is not as sharp as my Braun. It would be fine without those coriander seeds!
haha thats when u know you have had a good madras paul lol
Also, having no pre-cooked chicken I put the raw chicken into the wok after the first reduction stage and sealed the chicken with the reduced ingredients before adding the second lot of base. This seems to give the chicken a good flavour.
Last night I had another go at a basic madras.
I got quite an improvement by ditching the deggi mirch. I used some extra hot chilli powder (TRS I think) and it tasted much better. IMO the deggi mirch takes me away from the BIR taste I'm looking for.
Given the level of oil in the base - how long do you reckon it would keep in the fridge? - do you think it would keep longer than other bases?Mine is now probably a couple of weeks old (I'd have to check back on the date of my first report to be sure) and there are no signs of mildew or anything else that might cause me to worry whether it was still safe to use. Having said that, my g/g mix is now about a month old, and still doing fine ...
Incidentally, I only ever use garlic and ginger paste in my curries now I've worked out how to blend it without it turning green after a day or so.Not quite sure what you meant by this bit, Ray (did you not use garlic & ginger paster before you could stop it turning green ?) but for me the colour is immaterial : mine is now about a month old, has never been frozen (just lives in the 'fridge) and is a pleasant yellow colour : I used some last night, and could taste nothing untoward at all (and I don't have food poisoning today !). So I am inclined to suggest "forget the colour : just make sure it hasn't started to fester" :)
mine is now about a month old, has never been frozen (just lives in the 'fridge) and is a pleasant yellow colour : I used some last night, and could taste nothing untoward at all (and I don't have food poisoning today !). So I am inclined to suggest "forget the colour : just make sure it hasn't started to fester" :)
** Phil.
Not quite sure what you meant by this bit, Ray (did you not use garlic & ginger paste before you could stop it turning green ?)
Hi Phil,QuoteNot quite sure what you meant by this bit, Ray (did you not use garlic & ginger paste before you could stop it turning green ?)
No, I always use garlic and ginger paste but more often than not, it was shop bought in jars or, I would simply crush roughly what I needed in a pestle and mortar.
With regards to blending a batch of garlic and ginger, I had previously only ever blended it with water, and within 1 day, it does turn a very vivid green. I know that it is not harmful but it looks terrible, so much so, that I couldn't bring myself to use it.
Since then, I blend my garlic and ginger in very large batches with oil, and a little sugar, creating more of mayonnaise than a paste although once in the pan, the garlic and ginger do separate to a more familiar appearance.
I store them in sterilised 'pasta sauce' jars in the fridge and they stay perfectly white and will last for months (although they never get to see the month out).
Hope that explains things a bit better,
Ray :)
G&G turning green is bacteria...
ChewyTikka IMHO.
Bacteria, decay, algae, mould, toxins, chlorophyll, spirogyra : what more could you ask for an authentic BIR experience ? ;DG&G turning green is bacteria...
ChewyTikka IMHO.
I don't know if that's right
It has worried me over the years but now I use it anyhow
Made this last nigh to Razor's specs.
Eureka! Madras is pwned in my books.... Excellent curry.
Yor Madras mate, delicious.
Is the base as thick as it appears in the picture, or perhaps it is just throthed up a bit after the blend?;D
This may answer your question on the Methi: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5378.msg53317#msg53317 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5378.msg53317#msg53317)Ah, thank you : overlooked (or forgot) that. Much as I dislike many of the more recent developments of the web ([We]blogs, Facebook, Twitter, and all that social networking nonsense), I do wonder whether CR0 might not benefit from a parallel Wiki, where we could collectively ensure that there is one "perfect" reference copy for each key recipe, to which one could immediately go when in doubt without having to trawl through an entire thread ...
Also, have you tried the Taz base with the Taz Mix Powder (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4164.0) with the ChewyTikka Madras (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5634.msg55685#msg55685) / Zeera Madras (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5376.0) ?No, I confess I've not, although the two mixes look remarkably similar in content if not in proportion. Maybe I will try that with the remains of the Taz base, although having just made a large jar of IG mix I am loath to now make a second similar one !
| Spice | India Grill | Taz |
| Turmeric | 8 | 8 |
| Coriander | 4 | 5 |
| Curry powder | 7 | 4 |
| Cumin | 4 | 4 |
| Paprika | 4 | 3 |
Hi Paul
Apologies for correcting you, but isn't a tablespoon equal to about 15 grams (probably more for salt)?
Martin
Edit: After reading your previous posts you say you cut the recipe to one third of the ingredients and ended up with 500 ml of base. Your base sounds too thick as a third of a finished Taz base would be nearer to 1 litre. That might explain the over salty and too rich taste that you described.
With 2011 drawing towards a close I wonder what conclusions we can draw from this thread - did we achieve the goals Derek set out in his opening post?What a very good question, and well-timed to boot. For myself, I suppose a confession is in order. I tried Madras 2011. I tried Taz Base. I tried CA's base, and masala, and Madras. But at the end of 2011 I am right back to KD1. I tweak it, of course, because now I understand so much more. But for me, Kris Dhillon's base, and Kris Dhillon's Chicken Madras, are really the closest I ever come to 100% satisfaction. I use g/g paste now, bhoon the spices, add the sauce ladle by ladle (and ideally warm it first) but underneath it's still Kris Dhillon. So thank you Kris, and here's to <whatever> 2012. I'll propose 1970's style Chicken Bhuna, but would be willing to take part in anything that isn't chicken tikka based and that doesn't involve nuts or fruit.
Just to clarify Phil, you don't nor have you ever used the spice mix detailed in the KD1 book? By that I mean the one with brown cardamom and nutmeg.This is as in Kris's "Garam masala" ? If so, then no : I confess I never have, for reasons that are in hindsight totally unclear ...
Sorry Phil but I think you may mislead people over this when you've never actually followed KD's recipes.Paul, I understand your position. I respect your position. But I cannot, in a million years, accept that I "may mislead people over this" when I categorically state :
I use g/g paste now, bhoon the spices, add the sauce ladle by ladle (and ideally warm it first)** Phil.