Curry Recipes Online
Curry Recipe Group Tests => Curry Recipe Group Tests => Topic started by: chriswg on February 07, 2011, 08:11 AM
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I love Bombay Aloo and the thought of finding the perfect recipe is too good an opportunity to turn down.
Please can I have volunteers and recipe nominations on this thread. Solar - can you recipe be amended just be removing the spinach element or does it need tweaking elsewhere?
Razor, Luke, Ramirez - you are on the list. Solar, are you up for it? Anyone else let me know.
We will all be using par boiled Charlotte potatoes and the Taz base and spice mix. Other base sauces are available.
The test list currently looks like this:
Solars - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5553.msg54196;topicseen#msg54196 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5553.msg54196;topicseen#msg54196)
Dips - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4511.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4511.0)
976Bar - See below
UC - See below
Chewytikka - See below
One from a 'proper' book - Authentic Balti Cookbook
976bar:
Here's my recipe for Bombay Aloo. Unfortunately, I don't get the time to help out with the tests, wish I had more time to help out.
Ingredients
3 tbsp oil
1 and 1/2 tsp mustard seeds
1 tsp ground cumin
1 tsp turmeric
1 tsp ground coriander
1 tsp garam masala
1 fresh green chilli
1/2 tsp chilli powder
2 inch piece of ginger, peeled and grated
2 cloves of garlic, peeled, crushed and diced finely
4 tbsp butter
6 potatoes, peeled, parboiled and cut into 2 inch cubes
4 tomatoes, diced
1 cup fresh coriander, roughly chopped
Method
Heat the oil and butter in the pan, low to medium heat otherwise spices will burn, add the spices and fry for about 30 seconds. Then add the potatoes making sure they are completely coated in the spice mixture. Cook for about 10 to 15 minutes, then stir in the garam masala. Cook for a couple of minutes, then stir in the tomatoes and fresh coriander. Cook for a further 5 minutes or until the potatoes are just soft inside.
For Aloo Gobi, cook some cauliflower, cut into small stems and add to the pan with the potatoes and cover with the spice mixture.
UC:
Here is the UC one - it is for Sag Aloo but the spinach is left out):
0.5 tsp g/g puree
0.5 tsp tandoori masala
0.5 tsp salt
0.5 tsp cumin
a touch of curry powder
small handful of sliced garlic
gravy
potatoes (1-2 medium, pre-cooked)
coriander
Add 1 - 2 curry spoons of oil to a pan on medium head (assume he means chef spoon?)
Add sliced garlic until it starts to brown
Add the spices and stir round the pan - if it starts to stick add 0.3 ladle of gravy
Add 6 - 8 chunks of pre-cooked potato
Add 1 - 2 ladles of gravy and boil it down, stirring with the tip of the spoon
Add a good pinch of chopped coriander and give it a final stir
Anyone who has read the book will know that accurate measurements and timings are non-existent! I've transcribed as best I can. I reduced the spices from 0.7 tsp to 0.5 tsp to make up for the lack of spinach.
Chewytikka:
BIR/TA Bombay Aloo
It is the simplest and quickest of side dishes
Especially if you pre heat the cooked potatoes in the micro!
Method
Heat a chef's spoon of oil, quickly add tsp g&g paste, tsp mixed powder, touch of chilli powder,
chef's spoon tomato dilute, a handful of small chopped onion and green pepper.
Bhun/Stir-fry on med/high heat for 10sec, add potatoes and toss to coat, 10sec
add 2 chef's spoons of warm base sauce and Bhun/Stir-fry on med/high heat for
a minute or so, until the sauce clings and coats the potatoes (dry) add fresh chopped coriander, mix and serve.
(If you want it to be wet, just add more base sauce.)
This is the basic BIR Bombay Potatoes! anything else added to this makes it something else.
e.g. cumin seeds = Jheera Aloo, which I like.
and my favourite, Aloo Manchurian, which is Indo/Chinese and amazing.
Recipes are here and there, Method, Technique and Timing is everything!
Bombay Potato (Bombay Aloo) - Balti Cookbook
A hot and slightly dry dish (meaning it's not swimming in sauce - but still moist in texture) which can be served as a side dish or a main course. It includes chunks of potato, coated in a flavoursome mixture of spices and is best served with a paratha or chapatti.
Makes about 3 portions as a side dish. About 2 portions as a main meal:
Ingredients
6 medium potatoes, peeled and cut into 1 inch cubes
3 tbsp vegetable oil
6 garlic cloves, chopped
1 large onion, roughly chopped
1 tsp cumin seeds
2 green chillies, finely chopped (leave the seeds in)
1 tsp chilli powder
2 tsp of spice mix, aka; Mix powder, curry masala, spice blend
60ml of base sauce
1 tomato, diced
Fresh coriander leaves to garnish
Method
Boil the potatoes for about 5 minutes (so they're slightly cooked, but not liable to fall apart) then rinse in cold water, drain in a colander, and put to one side.
Heat the vegetable oil in a large frying pan or wok, and fry the garlic until it starts to brown.
Add the onion and cook until it starts to soften.
Then add the cumin seeds, stirring constantly, followed by the chillies.
Reduce the heat, add the chilli powder and spice mix, stirring constantly (so the spices don't burn) for about 1 minute.
Then add about half a cupful of hot water, and bring to the boil.
Continue to boil for about two minutes, stirring constantly.
Then add the potato, and base sauce.
Stir gently - making sure you don't break the potato.
Add the tomato, and cook for a few more minutes.
Sprinkle generously with fresh coriander leaves, and slightly mix it into the dish by giving it a gentle stir.
Serve.
Please note, this is not my recipe and I've only added it as a suggestion for the imminent group test.
If anyone feels offended by my publishing of this recipe or feel that I have broke the copyright law, then please don't hesitate to let me know, and I will remove the post.
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Hi
I'm up for it!
I have a separate recipe for Bombay Aloo, Will try to get it posted perhaps this weekend, need to finalise a couple of things.
CHeers
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Having quickly scanned the site, there's several Bombay Aloo recipes. I've found the following: -
Solar's - yet to be posted
Dip's - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4511.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4511.0)
Stephen's - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2745.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2745.0)
Pforkes' (same thread as Stephen's) - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2745.msg30918#msg30918 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2745.msg30918#msg30918)
lordtopcat's - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2374.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2374.0)
Pete's - http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1777.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1777.0)
Not sure which we choose from the above or if anyone is aware of other recipes not posted on this site.
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Well found Ramirez. I dont know what other peoples thoughts are but I've never had Bombay Aloo that doesn't contain base sauce. 3 of those recipes look very dry to me. We could include one of the dry one for the sake of the test.
I have the UC recipe that I dont think has been posted yet.
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All the Bombays I've had have been quite moist, although not as runny as Dip's which seems to be swimming in sauce. My preference would be the more moist ones, but hopefully people can recommend the ones they have tried (I've yet to try a Bombay recipe from this site).
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Here's my recipe for Bombay Aloo. Unfortunately, I don't get the time to help out with the tests, wish I had more time to help out.
Ingredients
3 tbsp oil
1 and 1/2 tsp mustard seeds
1 tsp ground cumin
1 tsp turmeric
1 tsp ground coriander
1 tsp garam masala
1 fresh green chilli
1/2 tsp chilli powder
2 inch piece of ginger, peeled and grated
2 cloves of garlic, peeled, crushed and diced finely
4 tbsp butter
6 potatoes, peeled, parboiled and cut into 2 inch cubes
4 tomatoes, diced
1 cup fresh coriander, roughly chopped
Method
Heat the oil and butter in the pan, low to medium heat otherwise spices will burn, add the spices and fry for about 30 seconds. Then add the potatoes making sure they are completely coated in the spice mixture. Cook for about 10 to 15 minutes, then stir in the garam masala. Cook for a couple of minutes, then stir in the tomatoes and fresh coriander. Cook for a further 5 minutes or until the potatoes are just soft inside.
For Aloo Gobi, cook some cauliflower, cut into small stems and add to the pan with the potatoes and cover with the spice mixture.
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Looks good Bar, we'll add it to the test recipes.
Here is the UC one - it is for Sag Aloo but the spinach is left out):
0.5 tsp g/g puree
0.5 tsp tandoori masala
0.5 tsp salt
0.5 tsp cumin
a touch of curry powder
small handful of sliced garlic
gravy
potatoes (1-2 medium, pre-cooked)
coriander
Add 1 - 2 curry spoons of oil to a pan on medium head (assume he means chef spoon?)
Add sliced garlic until it starts to brown
Add the spices and stir round the pan - if it starts to stick add 0.3 ladle of gravy
Add 6 - 8 chunks of pre-cooked potato
Add 1 - 2 ladles of gravy and boil it down, stirring with the tip of the spoon
Add a good pinch of chopped coriander and give it a final stir
Anyone who has read the book will know that accurate measurements and timings are non-existent! I've transcribed as best I can. I reduced the spices from 0.7 tsp to 0.5 tsp to make up for the lack of spinach.
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Chris i'm curious as I don't eat Bombay Aloo generally, but when I have tried it, it's always been hotter than saag aloo. Is it right that a bombay aloo is simply a saag aloo with the spinach left out?
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Chris i'm curious as I don't eat Bombay Aloo generally, but when I have tried it, it's always been hotter than saag aloo. Is it right that a bombay aloo is simply a saag aloo with the spinach left out?
Hi Axe,
Pretty much. It will of course vary from restaurant to restaurant, but sag aloo, aloo gobi are just additives to Bombay aloo.
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This was my thoughts also. I guess some places might do it differently but for speed I would guess most BIR's will have a standard Bombay Aloo recipe that they can change depending on what is needed to be added (cauliflower, spinach e.t.c.).
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Perhaps I should order some Bombay Aloo next time round, to see if it is still as hot as I remember from the times I have tried it.
I can certainly understand why restaurants would use the same recipe and thinking about it, making the bombay potato hotter is just as simple as the addition of chilli powder (or extra chilli powder).
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(Sorry for silence, been away in Germany) :
I would go along with the "Bombay Aloo is not Sag Aloo minus the Sag" philosophy : I agree with those who believe that Bombay Aloo is generally hotter than Sag Aloo, even allowing for the diluting effect of the Sag. And I also regard it as a fairly dry dish, which is not to suggest that there is no base sauce but rather than whatever sauce there it contains must be fairly heavily reduced.
To put things in perspective, Sag Aloo, Bombay Aloo, Mushroom Bhaji & Onion Bhaji are more-or-less the only vegetable dishes I eat (other than the Southern Indian specialities such as Masala Dosa, which are not really mainstream).
I can certainly understand why restaurants would use the same recipe and thinking about it, making the bombay potato hotter is just as simple as the addition of chilli powder (or extra chilli powder).
Axe, do you not think that the heat of Bombay Aloo normally comes from fresh green chilli rather than ground chillies ?
** Phil.
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Axe and Phil - Are you both up for doing the tests? There will hopefully be 5 different recipes to test and it shouldn't take too long.
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I must admit, my experiences of Bombay Aloo have also been fairly dry. I don't doubt that some base is used but these days I also consider that alot of restaurants seem to be caught in a 'plenty of base ' culture.
Dip's Bombay Aloo for example, has alot more base than I would expect. Where generally I would have thought base was used sparingly to keep the dish moist, rather than creating what you could consider to be a potato curry.
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Axe and Phil - Are you both up for doing the tests? There will hopefully be 5 different recipes to test and it shouldn't take too long.
Chris, i'll give it a go. This is really an avenue I want to test as the wife and I love Saag Aloo.
Where base is needed, are we going to agree on a particular recipe or use what we have? I realise that this is a question that will reoccur when testing other dishes, particularly mains and will no doubt cause concern about the results.
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Axe and Phil - Are you both up for doing the tests? There will hopefully be 5 different recipes to test and it shouldn't take too long.
Yes, given my very poor performance in the Onion Bhaji stakes ("fell at first fence"), I feel I owe it to the forum to try again, so put me down for this one and I will do my best !
Where base is needed, are we going to agree on a particular recipe or use what we have? I realise that this is a question that will reoccur when testing other dishes, particularly mains and will no doubt cause concern about the results.
I still have a fair amount of the Madras 2011 base (now strained) looking for a good home, otherwise my normal base is KD1.
** Phil.
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Hi chriswg
BIR/TA Bombay Aloo
It is the simplest and quickest of side dishes
Especially if you pre heat the cooked potatoes in the micro!
Method
Heat a chef's spoon of oil, quickly add tsp g&g paste, tsp mixed powder, touch of chilli powder,
chef's spoon tomato dilute, a handful of small chopped onion and green pepper.
Bhun/Stir-fry on med/high heat for 10sec, add potatoes and toss to coat, 10sec
add 2 chef's spoons of warm base sauce and Bhun/Stir-fry on med/high heat for
a minute or so, until the sauce clings and coats the potatoes (dry) add fresh chopped coriander, mix and serve.
(If you want it to be wet, just add more base sauce.)
This is the basic BIR Bombay Potatoes! anything else added to this makes it something else.
e.g. cumin seeds = Jheera Aloo, which I like.
and my favourite, Aloo Manchurian, which is Indo/Chinese and amazing.
Recipes are here and there, Method, Technique and Timing is everything!
I've always used potatoes, in experimenting with new curry dishes,
as they carry the spice flavours and if the flavours don't work for me, I haven't
wasted a good portion of Lamb or Chicken.
976bar
Did you learn your recipe from Jamie Oliver ?
http://www.lifestylefood.com.au/recipes/558/bombay-potatoes (http://www.lifestylefood.com.au/recipes/558/bombay-potatoes)
chewy
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Hi chewytikka
Thanks for posting your recipe and advice.
I am hoping to get my recipe for Bombay Potatoes posted and considdered for inclusion on the tests. If its not, thats fine, no bother - but I hope it will be tried!
It is very similar to the recipe that you just posted, however, it has a couple more simple ingredients to it which gives it an extra dimension. This was based on trying to clone one of my fav BIR's version of the dish.`
I really like it when great restaurants try to subtly personalise a standard dish and they are gifted enough to have the dish easily recognisable as a standard one, but leave the customer tantilised with the subtle extras. Just that little extra goes a long way when done right.
I will aim to get the recipe posted this weekend. I am poorly ATM and just cannot face cooking anthing ATM. In fact I have some lovely chilled tikka in the fridge and suspect it will just go in the bin :( just cant face it :(
Anyway, I was digressing... I agree with your comments - timing is far more important than most would believe!
Regards
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a handful of small chopped onion and green pepper.
Bhun/Stir-fry on med/high heat for 10sec, add potatoes and toss to coat, 10sec
add 2 chef's spoons of warm base sauce and Bhun/Stir-fry on med/high heat for
a minute or so, until the sauce clings and coats the potatoes (dry) add fresh chopped coriander, mix and serve.
Is this right that the onion and pepper only has 20 seconds of fry time and 1 min in the sauce? Won't that be a bit raw or is the pepper and onion pre-cooked?
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Hi Chewytikka,
976bar
Did you learn your recipe from Jamie Oliver ?
http://www.lifestylefood.com.au/recipes/558/bombay-potatoes (http://www.lifestylefood.com.au/recipes/558/bombay-potatoes)
No I didn't, and to be honest I don't remember where I got the recipe from, it was a long time ago, but it certainly wasn't Jamie.
I wonder where he got his recipe from because it is very similar :)
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Chris,
I will be interested in this test as i have never made a bombay aloo before, so have no preconcieved ideas of what these recipes are going to taste like.
regards
Alan ;D
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Hi Guy's,
Just my two penneth,
I do think most BIR, Aloo recipes derive from the Bombay potatoe but traditionally, Saag Aloo, Bombay Aloo, Aloo Palak, Aloo Gobi and so on, are really all quite different.
For instance, I've seen many traditional Bombay Aloo recipes that require no garlic :o
Just thought I'd share that with y'all ;D
Ray :)
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For what it's worth I don't think the recipe I posted would be regarded as BIR - more home cooking = it doesn't contain any base and is dry - if you wish to include it go ahead by all means but just thought I'd point that out.
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Hi Solarsplace
Sorry your not feeling well
Regards
[/quote]
Is this right that the onion and pepper only has 20 seconds of fry time and 1 min in the sauce? Won't that be a bit raw or is the pepper and onion pre-cooked?
[/quote]
Hi chriswg
Ha!!, fast and furious! I'll never make a recipe writer...
Simply adjust the timing to suit your own judgement.
But I do dice the onions small, about 5mm and I salt them
which breaks them down and helps cook them quickly.
Here's a random vid using prawn, with the same bhun method of cooking.
http://www.southtyneside.com/bhun.html (http://www.southtyneside.com/bhun.html)
Chewy
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Hi chewytikka
Thanks for the kind words!
I love the video :) - it is always fascinating to watch the professionals work!.
What I dearly want to know, is how the pan on the right is not splattering molten bubbles of sauce and oil over a massive radius like it always does in my kitchen ;)
Regards
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Also remember that the type of potatoes will influence the final dish
Waxy v floury, and how they are pre-cooked.
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So, is the list currently looking like this?
- Solar's
- 976bar's
- ChewyTikka's
- UC
- Dip's
Once finalised, it is probably worth updating the OP with the list and links to to recipes.
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What I dearly want to know, is how the pan on the right is not splattering molten bubbles of sauce and oil over a massive radius like it always does in my kitchen ;)
Hi Solarsplace
Don't let the vid fool you, the range gets covered with debris when the
service gets manic and non stop!
Cleaning down is part of the process and is quite obsessive in this kitchen,
At home, I use a lid, to try and reduce the mess.
Chewytikka
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What I dearly want to know, is how the pan on the right is not splattering molten bubbles of sauce and oil over a massive radius like it always does in my kitchen ;)
Hi Solarsplace
Don't let the vid fool you, the range gets covered with debris when the
service gets manic and non stop!
Cleaning down is part of the process and is quite obsessive in this kitchen,
At home, I use a lid, to try and reduce the mess.
Chewytikka
Great little video there Chewy,
BTW won't using a lid just keep recycling the water that you are trying to boil off?
Cheers,
Mick
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So, is the list currently looking like this?
- Solar's
- 976bar's
- ChewyTikka's
- UC
- Dip's
Once finalised, it is probably worth updating the OP with the list and links to to recipes.
Yes, I think that looks like a good selection. Solar is going to post his updated version. Once we have the final 5 I'll update the OP with the correct links.
It looks like we have lots of willing testers so we should get some very accurate results!
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[/quote]
Great little video there Chewy,
BTW won't using a lid just keep recycling the water that you are trying to boil off?
Cheers,
Mick
[/quote]
Catch 22 Mick, but I don't think it's that critical.
Chewy
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What I dearly want to know, is how the pan on the right is not splattering molten bubbles of sauce and oil over a massive radius like it always does in my kitchen ;)
Because there's no wife there to watch and whinge, notice and nag, criticise and complain !
** Phil (back again from further travels).
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Great little video there Chewy,
BTW won't using a lid just keep recycling the water that you are trying to boil off?
Cheers,
Mick
[/quote]
Catch 22 Mick, but I don't think it's that critical.
Chewy
[/quote]
???
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Hi Guys
Posted my Bombay Aloo recipe here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5553.msg54196;topicseen#msg54196 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5553.msg54196;topicseen#msg54196)
Would you mind taking a look and checking for obvious errors etc.
Many thanks!
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Hi Guy's,
Do we have the final list for the Bombay aloo group test?
Also, I would like to suggest that we go with George's original suggestion of testing a published recipe too. I think that that, would really give us a good gauge as to how good or bad cr0 members recipes are in comparison to the so called "experts"
For example, 5 members recipes plus 1 from a publication, such as KD, BE PC or The Authentic Balti Curry book
What do the rest of you think?
Ray :)
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Hi Guy's,
Do we have the final list for the Bombay aloo group test?
Also, I would like to suggest that we go with George's original suggestion of testing a published recipe too. I think that that, would really give us a good gauge as to how good or bad cr0 members recipes are in comparison to the so called "experts"
For example, 5 members recipes plus 1 from a publication, such as KD, BE PC or The Authentic Balti Curry book
What do the rest of you think?
Ray :)
Yes, good plan.
Anyone have any suggestions re with published one? has the authentic balti book got a bombay recipe then? - must have a look later I suppose ;)
Cheers
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OP has been updated with the recipes. I have Pat Chapmans book and I'm sure it has a recipe in it. Probably way overcomplicated and not very tasty if his other recipes are anything to go by! I'll have a look at all the books when I get home. The only one I don't have is TABC but I'm happy to give it a go if it looks good.
Most of the recipes are pretty similar but the cooking methods vary. It will be nice to try them all and see which produce the best taste.
Solar - you could always pop to my house one Saturday and we can cook 3 each. Less work and less mess (for you anyway).
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Hi SP,
has the authentic balti book got a bombay recipe then? - must have a look later I suppose
Yes, just checked and it does.
I've published the recipe (hope I don't get a bollocking for breach of copyright law ???
Ray :)
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... snip...
Solar - you could always pop to my house one Saturday and we can cook 3 each. Less work and less mess (for you anyway).
Hi Chris
Sounds like a great plan :) - Also takes some of the potential for questions / bias etc when ones own recipe is involved ;)
Regards
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I've published the recipe (hope I don't get a bollocking for breach of copyright law ???
If that were the case KD would be suing the ass off this site.
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OP updated again. Please everyone who wants to do the test feel free to crack on and email or IM me their results. Don't discuss your findings on here until everyone has completed them in the interest of fairness.
Good luck all. We should have lots of sets of results to combine!
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Chris, can you confirm which base we are to use? I don't have any left in my freezer so I am open to this, but some may prefer to use what they have. I know Phil said he had the Madras2011 base left over.
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Chris, can you confirm which base we are to use? I don't have any left in my freezer so I am open to this, but some may prefer to use what they have. I know Phil said he had the Madras2011 base left over.
Hi
Yes, this would be good to confirm. I too, was planning on using the Taz (Madras 2011) base.
CHeers
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How can you do a reliable comparative test if you don't use the specific curry bases (or spice mixes, etc) specified in the recipes?
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How can you do a reliable comparative test if you don't use the specific curry bases (or spice mixes, etc) specified in the recipes?
?
Exactly, that is what I am asking to get confirmed.
Cheers
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Exactly, that is what I am asking to get confirmed.
Then your answer is to use whatever curry base is specified in the recipes? :-\
Your earlier post stated: "I....was planning on using the Taz (Madras 2011) base"
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OP updated again
What's "OP" please?
And which recipes are to be "tested"?
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OP updated again
What's "OP" please?
And which recipes are to be "tested"?
Hi
It is the original post.
Cheers
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Hi All
It appears (I may have missed one, so will be worth others double checking) that no recipe apart from Dip's & Balti Book specifies a particular base & spice mix.
Would be happy to standardise on Taz throughout if others are in agreement. Fair test or not, personally I am not going to make a batch of Dips & Balti books own base & mix just to do 1 off Bombay Potatoes.
What are thoughts on this issue?
Are we happy to standardise on Taz mix where a mix powder is called for?
Cheers
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It appears (I may have missed one, so will be worth others double checking) that no recipe apart from Dip's & Balti Book specifies a particular base & spice mix
So where's the list? Have I missed it?
Nevertheless, that's two out of five (?) that specify a specific curry base and spice mix. How can you profess to do those recipes justice if you don't make them exactly as specified?
Fair test or not, personally I am not going to make a batch of Dips & Balti books own base & mix just to do 1 off Bombay Potatoes
In which case, therein lies the problem (meaninglessness/inequity) of these "Group Tests"?
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]
.. snip ..
So where's the list? Have I missed it?
Please see first post in thread (op).
Cheers
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How can you do a reliable comparative test if you don't use the specific curry bases (or spice mixes, etc) specified in the recipes?
None of the recipes stipulate base or spice mix recipes to be used, though two (dips & ABCC) have their own by association. Even, one can argue about branding of products used. I have experienced large differences in competing brands. All this will have an affect.
The point though, even if a different base or spice mix is used, at least it is used for the all the recipes (where required) by the tester. So whilst results may vary between testers, they should at least be reliable from each individual tester.
Whist I agree that perhaps it isn't strictly right to do this, it is at least a step in moving forward. It is simply not practical to create separate bases for individual dishes, as I am sure we all agree. Doing nothing will result in nothing and we won't move forward. At least this is a step in the right direction and will identify those recipes that are more 'realistic' for readers to try.
Since the topics are hear for people to read, they can also see that we have chosen to use a single base or another base etc., which they can use to make an informed decision on whether they should try it the recipes to specification or go with the test as performed.
Besides we are often told that any good base, any good spice mix, any good garam masala, etc,. will do.
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Sorry Axe, that sounds like a lot of weazle words to me! You should have been a politician! ;)
The fact is that at least 3 of the original 6 proposed recipes have their own curry base (and spice mix, etc)....i.e. Dipuraja's, Uncercover Curry and Authentic Balti Cookbook (I presume, though I haven't checked).
If you can't be bothered to make the recipes EXACTLY as specified by the author, then why bother at all? The results will be eroneous! You clearly are not doing justice to the author's recipe and intent if you do otherwise! ::)
I suppose that Dipuraja, for example, wouldn't be unduly chuffed if you used Taz's base (and spice mix) to make his curries! :P
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Sorry Axe, that sounds like a lot of weazle words to me! You should have been a politician! ;)
The fact is that at least 3 of the original 6 proposed recipes have their own curry base (and spice mix, etc)....i.e. Dipuraja's, Uncercover Curry and Authentic Balti Cookbook (I presume, though I haven't checked).
If you can't be bothered to make the recipes EXACTLY as specified by the author, then why bother? You clearly are not doing justice to the author's recipe and intent if you do otherwise! ::)
I suppose that Dipuraja, for example, wouldn't be unduly chuffed if you used Taz's base (and spice mix) to make his curries! :P
Hi CA
If you really choose not to see the spirit of what we are doing, why not just ignore these group test posts and participate in something else that does agree with you?
From feedback to all the other fun and successful group tests everyone else 'gets' what we are doing here and can read the whole discussions and make their own minds up.
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Are we happy to standardise on Taz mix where a mix powder is called for?
Absolutely.
** Phil.
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If you really choose not to see the spirit of what we are doing, why not just ignore these group test posts and participate in something else that does agree with you?
Sorry SP,
I take exception to your assertion that, because I disagree with you (and a few others), that my opinions are not valid and that i should not post them!
The fact is that others (e.g new members) MAY take note of these tests and SHOULD understand CLEARLY their limitations!
If it's purely for "FUN" then make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that it's PURELY FOR FUN! :-\
YOU asked the question, SP, and MY opinion is that TESTERS should test ANY recipes EXACTLY (ingredients, brands, methods, etc) as intended by the author...to get reliable comparative results.
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Right...
Moving on, guess we need all the participants to confirm either way whether they are happy to use Taz base & mix or please suggest other ideas.
CHeers
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Right...
Moving on, guess we need all the participants to confirm either way whether they are happy to use Taz base & mix or please suggest other ideas.
CHeers
What? Provided it concurs with your own view SP? ::)
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CA
Please stop trying to provoke arguments. You are behaving like a forum troll.
Thank you
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CA
Please stop trying to provoke arguments. You are behaving like a forum troll.
Thank you
YOU asked the question and you have my opinion! Accept it (even though you don't like it)!
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MY opinion is that TESTERS should test ANY recipes EXACTLY (ingredients, brands, methods, etc) as intended by the author...to get reliable comparative results.
I agree. Perhaps some of the people who break this golden rule, time after time, didn't enjoy science, let alone logic and rationale at school.
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@Chris
Did we manage to get a final list of participants? - I'm in theory up for coming to your house to share the cooking load - although have not cleared it with the wife - she will be proper miffed as she loves tasting all the different candidates of these group tests, so I will probably have to do them twice anyway :)
Can't wait to start this latest round of curry fun :) - would hate to see nothing happening and stagnation continue ;)
I think these fun and informal group tests are really beneficial to the greater forum community. They obviously cannot and do not try to be a conclusive council on the best recipes or methods (that would be impossible given the nature of the forum and participants, so silly to think otherwise), but all the tests conducted thus far show clear groupings to favourable recipes where members if they so choose can begin their own experiments :)
Regards to all BIR curry friends and enthusiasts :)
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I hope it goes well guys. It is a bit of fun and collaboration on the forum.
Personally I don't think the differences between the Taz base and, say, Dipu's base would make much difference to these finished dishes.
Sorry I don't have time to join in this one but I look forward to making the winning dish once announced.
Paul
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Hi Guy's,
Here's my opinion for what it's worth.
We as a group, were a little wary from the start, of testing actual curries because, it wouldn't be practical to do so! All of each requiring a specific base gravy, spice mix and so on, so I do see where CA and George are coming from.
However, I get the feeling that the whole of the potential testers are quite excited by this particular group test. As long as it is made clear when the results are published, that the original base sauce was replaced with, whatever base sauce we decide and link's are provided to the original recipes, I don't see it as too much of a problem.
We are not trying to create a list of elite recipes, as we've all said many times before but hopefully, provide a little bit of a guide for newcomers as to what to try first, if they can't decide where to start. It also creates interest from many non participating members. Check the 'who's on-line' facility when these results are published, there are loads of non participating members viewing these posts, which is great.
I will modify the ABCC Bombay Aloo recipe with the correct base sauce and spice mix links.
Just a word on the Taz base, I'm a big fan but, I don't think that it will work well for this particular test because it is designed specifically for the reduction method. Wouldn't that over cook the potatoes? Plus, I don't think any of the suggested recipes require the reduction method.
Just a thought!
Ray :)
Edit: Unfortunately, the 'Modify' option is no longer available for me to publish the relevant links :(
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I agree. Perhaps some of the people who break this golden rule, time after time, didn't enjoy science, let alone logic and rationale at school.
Not sure why you need to have a go at people for expressing their opinions but yet again you try and dismiss them as individuals.
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HIya all, im going to miss this test out, as somebody else said, i'll be watching the testing and taking note of the results, but i dont really eat bombay aloo.
Does Bombay aloo need starting with a fried spice start or with the spuds in with the spices during the first fry? If not then i cant see why the reduction method ie Taz method wont work.
I can also see where CA is coming from, bastardising recipes from the beginning is a good way to cause confusion later on. Altering recipes is only usefull i feel once we are confident we understand the original recipe as much as possible.
Like i said im looking forwards to the results but rather than altering things early on would it not be better to do a comparison of Taz's with another complete recipe choice?
I aint stirring honest :)
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I'm happy to go either way in terms of whether we use the base and spice mix stated in the recipe or standardise on one base and spice mix for all. However, the former is clearly going to take much longer. I am more than happy to go with the earlier suggestion of the Taz Base and spice mix.
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Wow this topic really kicked off eh?
From my point of view we are trying to find the tastiest recipe but we also want one that is versatile. No one can honestly tell me that they would ever make a batch of base sauce just for Bombay Aloo. It's a nice side dish and will always be made with whichever base is available that week.
With this in mind we should use a variety of bases and spice mixes, as long as each person uses the same for each test. I have lots of UC base in the freezer so I'll be using that. If you guys like, Solar and I can make a couple of the recipes twice using a different base in each to see if there is any difference in taste. My thoughts are probably not. If there is a difference I would assume the one that tasted better with one base will still taste better with the other.
I appreciate in a free speaking forum environment there will always be nay-sayers and negativity toward ideas. I suggest if CA aint happy with what we are all doing then he sets up Cory's Group Tests where everyone has to make 5 different base sauces and spice mixes to compare 5 different recipes. Good luck finding people to help with that! This gets especially annoying when the people taking the jabs are the ones who have no interest in taking part or really doing anything to move the forum forwards. If you were bothered about the future of this site you would be encouraging more of this not sticking the knife in whenever you can. You should be ashamed of yourselves!
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If you guys like, Solar and I can make a couple of the recipes twice using a different base in each to see if there is any difference in taste. My thoughts are probably not. If there is a difference I would assume the one that tasted better with one base will still taste better with the other.
Chris, I also lean towards the theory that a better result if any, will be achieved by the same base. So to that end, it might be a good idea to test this theory for the purposes of thoroughness. Especially as the majority of tests that will eventually be performed will carry this same discussion.
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Not sure why you need to have a go at people for expressing their opinions but yet again you try and dismiss them as individuals.
I'm not dismissing anybody as an individual - I'm only saying their approach is misleading, possibly invalid, and unfair on the person who posts an original recipe, e.g. if their recipe comes last in a group test, or is otherwise slagged off, mainly because somebody has altered the recipe.
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From my point of view we are trying to find the tastiest recipe
But how do you propose to find that if you don't follow the recipe poster's instructions EXACTLY?
but we also want one that is versatile. No one can honestly tell me that they would ever make a batch of base sauce just for Bombay Aloo. It's a nice side dish and will always be made with whichever base is available that week
I don't necessarily disagree, but here, you are attempting to assess their recipes. Therefore, to do them any sort of justice, and to present any meaningful (rather than misleading) results, you surely HAVE to test them in the way that the author intended them to be made!
I appreciate in a free speaking forum environment
Clearly you don't, otherwise you would not profuse so loudly against others' points of view :-\
I suggest if CA aint happy with what we are all doing then he sets up Cory's Group Tests where everyone has to make 5 different base sauces and spice mixes to compare 5 different recipes. Good luck finding people to help with that
You know and I know that that is not workable! MY preference is (and always has been) for ANY individual to be able to rate ANY recipe (as the author intended) by some (commonplace) ranking system.
This gets especially annoying when the people taking the jabs are the ones who have no interest in taking part or really doing anything to move the forum forwards. If you were bothered about the future of this site you would be encouraging more of this not sticking the knife in whenever you can
What I find annoying is that people like you make those sorts of unfounded (and naive and ill informed) assertions :-\
You should be ashamed of yourselves!
As should you be! ::)
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I'm not dismissing anybody as an individual - I'm only saying their approach is misleading, possibly invalid, and unfair on the person who posts an original recipe, e.g. if their recipe comes last in a group test, or is otherwise slagged off, mainly because somebody has altered the recipe.
I agree, and I am raising the same concern.
Furthermore (as stated previously, and has been pooh poohed by some), there is no way that testers should be evaluating their own (or anyone's with whom they are familiar) recipe in "group tests". It's far too incestuous and is bound to bring into question bias.
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I agree, and I am raising the same concern.
Isn't there anyone else here who shares the same concern as CA and myself? There must be. Any member with an IQ of less than 100 need not reply.
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I agree, and I am raising the same concern.
Isn't there anyone else here who shares the same concern as CA and myself? There must be. Any member with an IQ of less than 100 need not reply.
Your log in sports the 'moderator' privilege. Most users do not know that you have these privileges in the interest of reducing spam, it would reflect better on the forum if someone wearing the moderator badge was not posting so negativity.
Thank you
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Any member with an IQ of less than 100 need not reply.
Well, now I am intrigued : I never had you down as an intellectual snob, George. But in the interests of openness, would you like to tell the rest of us your I.Q. (Cattell, Stanford-Binet, or Wechsler scale), just so that we can be sure that you aren't excluding others in the same range as yourself ?
** Phil.
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I agree, and I am raising the same concern.
Isn't there anyone else here who shares the same concern as CA and myself? There must be. Any member with an IQ of less than 100 need not reply.
George
I agree with you and CA, but I'm a newbie and don't really have the expertise to comment (although I have now) I expect there are some more, but don't want to upset the applecart so of speak ;D
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I agree, and I am raising the same concern.
Isn't there anyone else here who shares the same concern as CA and myself? There must be. Any member with an IQ of less than 100 need not reply.
Your log in sports the 'moderator' privilege. Most users do not know that you have these privileges in the interest of reducing spam, it would reflect better on the forum if someone wearing the moderator badge was not posting so negativity.
Thank you
George being a mod doesn't mean he cannot have an opinion in my view
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It seems to me there are two choices:
1) Make the recipes to spec exactly. For this particular group test that will involve making (at least) 3 base sauces just to try bombay aloo recipes out.
2) Allow some leeway with the base so that reviewers can use whatever base they have to hand.
Option 1 will never happen.
Option 2 might just reveal a decent recipe that we can all benefit from.
To my mind Option 2 is hopeful despite the dire warnings from some about not following a process exactly to the letter.
Paul
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Don't see any point in having a recipe, If your going to change it, just as well make it up as you go along
But this seems to be the norm, Take a recipe then destroy it, especially in the base section
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Shall we just forget the whole thing?
George being a mod doesn't mean he cannot have an opinion in my view
You're completely right, it doesn't mean he cannot state his opinion. However, new users seeing a mod make comments like that is pretty harmful to the forum IMO, especially on a small forum like this where new regular-posting users are rare. It isn't appropriate.
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Shall we just forget the whole thing?
George being a mod doesn't mean he cannot have an opinion in my view
You're completely right, it doesn't mean he cannot state his opinion. However, new users seeing a mod make comments like that is pretty harmful to the forum IMO, especially on a small forum like this where new regular-posting users are rare. It isn't appropriate.
Im new here but I don't think it harmful, just honest
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Shall we just forget the whole thing?
George being a mod doesn't mean he cannot have an opinion in my view
You're completely right, it doesn't mean he cannot state his opinion. However, new users seeing a mod make comments like that is pretty harmful to the forum IMO, especially on a small forum like this where new regular-posting users are rare. It isn't appropriate.
Im new here but I don't think it harmful, just honest
Hi
It may be honest! fair enough, but why does everything here have to be so negative?
Why can persons with doubts not help to think of potentially workable ideas to the problems rather than just bluntly saying - your doing it all wrong, its all going to be pointless, your going offend the original authors and misguide new members and be be a complete wate of time etc.
Probably wasting my breath, just one last attempt to be positive.
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Not sure what useful George's IQ question brings to the forum other than he regards some members as idiots. Not helpful and somewhat engative as others have suggested.
By the way Phil we use the WAIS-R locally.
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I've been a member of Mensa since I was 12 having passed the test on 3 separate occasions. I scored 137 on the Stanford-Binet scale putting me in the 99th centile I believe. I guess that means my views carry more weight than anyone else's George?
Seriously though, we'll carry on with the tests as they are and record the results accurately. If Dip's recipe using Taz's base comes out top, what is the problem? That's a great result for the forum and a building block to build on.
There seems to be a massive divide here at the moment and if we aren't careful we will either lose some of the most active members, or there will be another breakaway curry board. Neither option is good for CR0 so come on everyone, if you like curry look for the positives and lets stop the nitpicking can we? If you don't have anything positive to say, maybe try not saying anything at all.
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Chris, it's probably worth updating the OP with details regarding the base and spice mix to be used, just be completely clear.
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I've been a member of Mensa since I was 12 having passed the test on 3 separate occasions. I scored 137 on the Stanford-Binet scale putting me in the 99th centile I believe. I guess that means my views carry more weight than anyone else's
Only those that scored less than you, Chris :)
** Phil.
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Members spend day after day on this forum discussing the difference a base makes to a finished curry and then it becomes a free for all on these group tests, I don't understand why?, having said that I wasn't over impressed with the onion bhaji test attempt and the final winner, so I will do what I normally do, mix and match various methods until I get what I want, oh s**t, I've just realised that's what you guys are doing, you are really true geniuses!
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Dya know something? I couldn't give a witches tit how brainy or not particular members are.
It doesn't bother me that other members opinions differ from my own, in fact, I enjoy hearing things from a different slant.
I'm not arsed that some members may disagree with the group test results, that's what they are all about. I take it ThaiExpat that you tried all of the recipes that we did in the bhaji test? If so, brilliant, that's the whole point of these FUN tests, to encourage members to find their own personal favourites.
What does piss me off, is that we don't seem to be able to push this forum forward without some kind of conflict!
I take it that we all enjoy participating on cr0? So why can't we do it in an adult way?
Please, lets proof read our responses and assess how they may be perceived, unless you want to deliberately offend someone or cause a row!
Chris,
Unless you already have done so, publish the recipes for testing and lets just crack on, eh?
Ray
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It doesn't bother me that other members opinions differ from my own, in fact, I enjoy hearing things from a different slant.
You're right of course but opinions are one thing, and distortions or misrepresentations are something else. When tests are carried out by "Which?" magazine or anyone you assume the tests are fair, conducted on a level playing field. In the context of the tests here, using the wrong base sauce or 2 tsp lime juice instead of 4 tsp lemon juice, could throw things out a lot. You could, of course, discover something quite delicious in the process but it still risks a distortion of the test results.
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I think that what I am about Razor, is that I have been a member of this forum for four years, and ok I don't post much but increasingly this forum is falling into some kind of battlefield between factions and it seems to be loosing some of it's attraction, I don't fall on one side or the other, when I say that I mean just because someone has posted 2000 plus times doesn't make them an expert in bir curry though it does steer new members in their direction and put them on some kind of pedestal on this forum, my post was aimed at both camps because sooner or later you will piss most members off, has anyone looked at how many past members some of them mods on this site have dissapeared lately, or maybe they have decided to pay for the other site, you know if I didn't know better I would say that the other site owners are masquerading on here and causing most of the crap that goes on weekly to undermine it.
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George,
C'mon fella, we aren't Which magazine though are we? We are a bunch of amature cooks, searching for recipes that take us close if not better than our favourite eating places.
I could understand the level of dissaproval of this particular test if, we were going to put the highest scoring recipe into a cr0 cookbook which we were selling for profit but we're not! We're just trying to create a little bit of fun on the forum. I've lost count of how many times non participating memebrs have enquired as to where we are upto with these test's. For me, that makes them all the more worth while, that somebody is actually enjoying them, and is eager to see the outcome.
using the wrong base sauce or 2 tsp lime juice instead of 4 tsp lemon juice, could throw things out a lot. You could, of course, discover something quite delicious in the process
I totally agree, but surely members can see how impractical it would be to make 5 or 6 different base sauces just to do this one test? As long as it is made very very clear, when the results are published that for practical reasons, we have used a standard base sauce instead of the recipe providers own base sauce, then that will be fine, won't it?
George, can I ask a favour please? Not sure what mod privillages you have but would you modify my Bombay Aloo recipe post please? I no longer have the modify option available.
Where I have listed Base Sauce would you add this link? http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4283.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4283.0)
And where I have listed spice mix, would you please add this link? http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1547.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1547.0)
At least that way, should a member like to try the recipe to spec, they would have the option to do so.
Here is the original post http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5556.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5556.0)
Many thanks,
Ray :)
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George, can I ask a favour please? Not sure what mod privileges you have but would you modify my Bombay Aloo recipe post please? I no longer have the modify option available.
I suppose that will be OK and I'll be pleased to help. The only thing is that the edit button normally goes after a while, and that must be for some reason, on most forums.
As moderator I see three buttons against EVERY post, i.e. Quote, Modify and Remove. It's quite scary.
I agree that these tests should be fun but there's quite a lot of time and expense involved, so it would be good if they can be 'meaningful' as well.
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increasingly this forum is falling into some kind of battlefield between factions and it seems to be losing some of its attraction
I agree, and I accept that I am as guilty as anyone of occasionally rising to the bait and challenging a remark that has nothing to do with curry (for example, a suggestion that the opinion of 50% of the population is of no interest). But with all due respect, it does seem that there are a very small number of members who seem to get far more pleasure out of winding others up than they do from discussing the merits of various recipes.
So here's a genuine suggestion (in line with the topic of this thread) : why don't those who agree with the position that one must use the correct base for each of the Bombay Aloo dishes carry out their version of the Group Test; and let those who disagree with that position use whatever base they like. Both groups can then report back to Chris, who can both present the results, and -- if there are significant differences in the results between the two groups -- look to see if it is possible to explain those differences on the basis (no pun intended) of the actual base(s) used.
In that way, we can avoid all in-fighting : each group will do what it believes is right, and both groups, as well as all other members, can benefit by comparing and contrasting the two sets of results.
My Eur 0,02.
** Phil.
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Hi Thai Expat,
I pretty much agree with most of what you are saying but unfortunately, it's been a battlefield for longer than four years.
When it was at it's worst last year, I very nearly decided not to return to cr0 but even amidst all the mayhem, there were still the odd one or two valuable post, or at least of some value to me anyway. For that reason, I continued to participate.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, the forum needed freshening up a touch. Then Chriswg, comes up with this idea, and it really was like a breath of fresh air. But, do you know what? before we had even done one single test, an argument ensued because of some unfortunate but innocent wording!
All I'm saying is, this forum would get along much better if we remember just a few points;
a) We all have an opinion, lets respect that even if we disagree!
b) Try to choose our words carefully when we respond in a post. Think how the respondent may perceive your reply!
c) If you do feel that you need to enter into an argument with another member, do it via PM, that way, we eliminate the "whose camp am I in" scenario!
d) If you would like to ask a member about a particular point in their published recipe, try to do it in a respectful way for example;
Hi Razor, you state in your recipe that I would require 1 chefspoon of onion paste. As I am not too familiar with what quantity a chefspoon holds, would you have a measurable conversion please?
This is much more preferable than;
Razor, I'm just about to try cooking this up and the first thing that I get is Chef's spoon, I'm sorry but please put any measurements in the recognised amounts , a chef spon is not a standard, a tea or tablespoons is recognised the world over, members of this site moan about getting things right and then we get a measurement that is really unquantifiable, I'm sorry but you might as well say get a big spoon and chuck a big dollop in.
Can you see where I'm coming from? It reads really aggressive which I'm sure wasn't your intention at the time.
Can we all just try to get along for a change and make this forum great again?
Ray :)
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Can we all just try to get along for a change and make this forum great again?
Seconded. If we're successful, we could even change the name of the site to GCR0 ("Great Curry Recipes Online") ;D
** Phil.
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Thanks George, much appreciated.
Phil, I think that that is an excellent idea. It would also kill two birds with one stone! For me, it would prove the importance of a particular base sauce, for example; If the results from both sets of tests show a remarkable consistency then for me, that would tell me that the base sauce is less important to an end dish than that of say, the spice mix or the method.
On the other hand, if both sets of results was completely different from each other, then base sauce has a big part to play in our recipes.
Ray :)
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This is the spirit! :)
Thanks guys! - well played on the positive ideas front!
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Hi
Well now were sorted,what potato variety are we using? Lol
Regards
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Commis,
Hi
Well now were sorted,what potato variety are we using? Lol
Regards
I really really wanted to ask that but I thought, b****cks to that for a game of soldiers ;D ;D ;D
Ray ;D
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The British Potato Council recommends Estima, Harmony and Osprey for boiling; on the other hand, it lists Charlotte and Maris Peer as the best for a waxy texture. Should we consider these as our first choices ? If so, we will need to check on their availability nationwide.
** Phil.
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Hi
How about we go real BIR TA, tinned! Will check out my local grocer, I'm in Oldham and Hume in the morning so late afternoon.
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Hi
charlotte potatoes available in most supermarkets in the uk and work well in this dish as they hold their shape unless really overcooked.
Barry
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Charlotte are fine by me (and thanks for the comment, Barry : first-hand knowledge is invariably the best !).
** Phil.
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Right, the recipes are on the OP. We'll use Charlotte potatoes and a Taz base. I'll also make a couple using the UC recipe to see if there are and differences.
Now let get this show on the road.
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Right, the recipes are on the OP. We'll use Charlotte potatoes and a Taz base. I'll also make a couple using the UC recipe to see if there are and differences.
OK, assuming that by "the OP" you mean the first message in the thread, then I need to query one thing : where you write "We will all be using par boiled Charlotte potatoes", is the par-boiling explicit in each of the recipes, or is it a separate and undocumented stage for some or all, and if the latter, for how long are we to par-boil ?
** Phil.
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Hi Phil,
Most of the recipes say just add pre-cooked potatoes. The Balti Cookbook suggests:
Boil the potatoes for about 5 minutes (so they're slightly cooked, but not liable to fall apart) then rinse in cold water, drain in a colander, and put to one side.
The only recipe that is a bit different is Solars who boils them in a bit of turmeric.
I hope this helps.
Chris
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OK, fine, understood. Will parboil as recommended except for SP recipe which will get special treatment. Charlottes : another excuse to visit Waitrose ;D
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To be honest I wouldn't do this if we had to make several bases but if we are using Charlottes and Taz (or an alternative) base then I'd probably like to give this test a go. Like others have said it's a bit of fun and it could be a win-win for members.
This thread has now become a long one though and I'm not clear as to which recipes are now to be included in the test?
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OP gives details of the recipes, Stephen.
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Hi chriswg
"Just a point for the sake of authenticity"
I've never known any BIR and especially TA Kitchens,
preparing potatoes separately for Bombay Aloo or any other Aloo dish.
They simply use a handful of par fried chips, which they have in abundance
as part of the prep for service.
Hardly anything in a BIR kitchen is made totally from scratch, it's more of an assembly of par cooked foods! There just isn't time!
Just like Chicken Tikka, you would be very lucky to get it straight from the Tandoor
as they usually batch cook it and zap it in the microwave for your dish,
Cheers ChewyTikka
Oh, an Omelette is made from scratch ;D
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They simply use a handful of par fried chips, which they have in abundance
as part of the prep for service.
Maybe I'm being naive (but not intentionally so) : why would an Indian restaurant or takeway have par-fried chips ? What place do chips have in BIR cuisine ?
Just like Chicken Tikka, you would be very lucky to get it straight from the Tandoor as they usually batch cook it and zap it in the microwave for your dish
I suspect that that is one of the hallmarks of the better restaurant : food fresh from the tandoor, not fresh from the microwave !
** Phil.
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They simply use a handful of par fried chips, which they have in abundance
as part of the prep for service.
Maybe I'm being naive (but not intentionally so) : why would an Indian restaurant or takeway have par-fried chips ? What place do chips have in BIR cuisine ?
Just like Chicken Tikka, you would be very lucky to get it straight from the Tandoor as they usually batch cook it and zap it in the microwave for your dish
I suspect that that is one of the hallmarks of the better restaurant : food fresh from the tandoor, not fresh from the microwave !
** Phil.
[/quote]Maybe I'm being naive (but not intentionally so) : why would an Indian restaurant or takeway have par-fried chips ? What place do chips have in BIR cuisine ? [/quote]
Yes, I agree with naive and maybe a tad delusional by your comments.
1. To give their British customers what they want. 2. Usually on a tray underneath the deep fat fryer.
My point being, regarding this thread, potatoes are par fried, not par boiled in BIR kitchens.
Chewy
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I've seen precooked potato sitting in the fridge during visits to the IG Kitchen. Infact it was brought to my attention by the owner as he was explaining that they used Panch Phuran (sp?) to flavour the majority of precooked veg.
You could even see evidence of the whole spice on the potatoes and other veg, which essentially was also a tray of mixed veg and a tray of mushrooms. I didn't get a chance to spy anything else.
But I would say that the potato appeared to be par-boiled though, not par-fried. I will also add that I have not seen a microwave in the IG kitchen either. I will of course ask them when I can, to confirm this.
I appreciate that this does not mean that alot of TA/BIR's don't par-fry of course. These are just my observations.
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Maybe I'm being naive (but not intentionally so) : why would an Indian restaurant or takeway have par-fried chips ? What place do chips have in BIR cuisine ?
Yes, I agree with naive and maybe a tad delusional by your comments.
1. To give their British customers what they want. 2. Usually on a tray underneath the deep fat fryer.
This may (again) be regional : I have never heard or seen a customer order chips in this part of the world (in a BIR, that is : as opposed to a fish-and-chip shop, or even a kebab house).
My point being, regarding this thread, potatoes are par fried, not par boiled in BIR kitchens.
I'd be interested to know if this is fact or conjecture. The reason I say that is that I increasingly par-boil chips rather than par-fry them at 160C, and the results are distinctly better by par-boiling than par-frying. I accept that you have seen them on a tray under the deep-fat fryer, but they could still be par-boiled and awaiting frying rather than par-fried.
** Phil (who, on reading his own post, has the slightly worrying feeling that it could be interpreted as being deliberately provocative : please be assured that it is meant as friendly questioning rather than argument).
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Hi
On the chip front, i know that the the tv chefs twice fry the chips, firstly in low heat then leave to dry and cool and later finish in high heat for a few minutes. I am not sure if the B.I.R's do it but i know a lot of low rent cafe's do it and it tends to makes for a sloppy chip if done wrong!! The local kebab shops just bung them in from frozen as quite thin cut!
As to the potatoes, the important thing when boiling is to very gently simmer as to not break up the starch molecules which makes them slushy! I usually bring the water to the boil, add the potatoes with some turmeric and panch poran and turn the heat to low. I then check on them every few minutes!
If I get a chance to participate in this test I will cook in only in water only unless stated in recipe.
Regards
Barry
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For crying out loud, what is wrong with people.
Yes, I agree with naive and maybe a tad delusional by your comments.
1. To give their British customers what they want. 2. Usually on a tray underneath the deep fat fryer.
Chewy
Again, a completely arsey response to a pefectly valid question;
Maybe I'm being naive (but not intentionally so) : why would an Indian restaurant or takeway have par-fried chips ? What place do chips have in BIR cuisine ?
** Phil.
Why do people take things the wrong way, especially when the person asking the question has indicated that he is not trying to be awkward?
Chewy, couldn't you have just replied with the last sentence in your reply?
My point being, regarding this thread, potatoes are par fried, not par boiled in BIR kitchens.
Chewy
Ray
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Pre cooked potatoes being boiled in my local restaurant kitchen.
They start with oil, finely chopped onions, garlic/ginger paste, cassia bark, bay leaves, panch phoran and salt,
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k567/currybarkingmad/002640x480.jpg)
They then add tomato paste, turmeric and some mix powder.
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k567/currybarkingmad/003640x480.jpg)
Then in with the potatoes and lots of water.
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k567/currybarkingmad/004640x480.jpg)
...and not a chip in sight.
Sweeping statements can be misleading.
Cheers
Mick
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Now that looks like a fine way to start a Bombay Aloo, Mick : Chris, can we include this as a pre-requisite to the Bombay Aloo test ?
** Phil.
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Well done Mick, clarity at last ;D
Ray :)
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They simply use a handful of par fried chips, which they have in abundance
as part of the prep for service.
Maybe I'm being naive (but not intentionally so) : why would an Indian restaurant or takeway have par-fried chips ? What place do chips have in BIR cuisine ?
I think chwytikka might have a point. Many/most BIRs offer a selection of 'English' items on their menu. For example, the first Indian take away menu I just picked up, at random, offers: chicken nuggets and chips, plain omelette and chips and several other items, all with chips. This place looks like a pure Indian restaurant - it's not some kind of hybrid - and yet they still make chips.
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Whenever I've had BIR side dishes with potato pieces they have never been chip shaped. They are usually too big to be part of a cut up chip.
Paul
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George,
Yes you can get chips, chicken, chicken nuggets and so on in most BIR's. I think it's their attempt at catering for families with kids, not that I would shove chicken nuggets down my kids throats!
I think chwytikka might have a point.
He absolutely does, I just take exception at the way he makes his point, that's all!
Ray :)
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They simply use a handful of par fried chips, which they have in abundance
as part of the prep for service.
Maybe I'm being naive (but not intentionally so) : why would an Indian restaurant or takeway have par-fried chips ? What place do chips have in BIR cuisine ?
I think chwytikka might have a point. Many/most BIRs offer a selection of 'English' items on their menu. For example, the first Indian take away menu I just picked up, at random, offers: chicken nuggets and chips, plain omelette and chips and several other items, all with chips. This place looks like a pure Indian restaurant - it's not some kind of hybrid - and yet they still make chips.
Totally agree with you George.
Most offer some kind of non Indian restaurant alternative, chips included, but I know my local kitchen would not use leftover chips to make their pre-cooked potatoes. Nor have I seen this in the 6 kitchens that I previously have had access to.
When I said in my last post "not a chip in sight" I meant not in the pre-cooked spuds. :)
Regards,
Mick
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I think chwytikka might have a point.
He absolutely does, I just take exception at the way he makes his point, that's all!
Come on guys, let's move on : I didn't take exception to Chewy's response -- he obviously thought I was being deliberately opaque, which I wasn't, but if we all take offence less easily then the forum will be a happier and more productive place. Back to the Bombay Aloo, please, and a ruling from ChrisWG as to whether we can legitimately include Mick's pre-cook of the potatoes.
** Phil.
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OK Phil, fair enough, I'll move on but is it too much to ask that members consider their responses to perfectly valid questions, as I have already pleaded with members to do so further up in this post?
Come on guys, let's move on : I didn't take exception to Chewy's response
No, you didn't, and hats of to you for that.
Ray :)
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I think chwytikka might have a point.
He absolutely does, I just take exception at the way he makes his point, that's all!
Come on guys, let's move on : I didn't take exception to Chewy's response -- he obviously thought I was being deliberately opaque, which I wasn't, but if we all take offence less easily then the forum will be a happier and more productive place. Back to the Bombay Aloo, please, and a ruling from ChrisWG as to whether we can legitimately include Mick's pre-cook of the potatoes.
** Phil.
Hi Phil, All
Well, love Mick's pictures post there! and will be more than happy to admit that I am going to try adding some of those additions in the not too distant future to try and inject some more lovely flavour into the potato's! - need to add, have no current complaints to a well seasoned potato boiled with Tumeric, so one can only hope adding some mix and tomato etc can only be an improvement?
It is a good suggestion too, as most recipes just suggest "par boil some spuds" - but something nagging in me thinks that altering all the dishes to use this quite lovely sounding method may well be the straw to the camels back of tweaking the recipes to suit the ability of the testers resources vs the original recipe.
However as always, happy to go with the majority!
Actually, nothing to stop those that wish to, to perform the test more than once with a different global constant each time for each recipe?
Actually, thinking about it, we should almost certainly just stop here for now and crack on as suggested by Chris!
Cheers
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Hi SP,
I am going to crack on using the mick/taz base but, I will definately be giving micks spuds a go in the very near future (ooo, that sounds so wrong on so many levels)
What I want to do, is see the end results of the group test, then take the one that scores highest, and make it absolutely to spec just to see what the difference is.
Ray :)
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Hi SP,
I am going to crack on using the mick/taz base but, I will definately be giving micks spuds a go in the very near future (ooo, that sounds so wrong on so many levels)
What I want to do, is see the end results of the group test, then take the one that scores highest, and make it absolutely to spec just to see what the difference is.
Ray :)
Good plan Bat Man :)
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I will definately be giving micks spuds a go in the very near future (ooo, that sounds so wrong on so many levels)
Ray :)
Oh will you now, you smooth talking devil....
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Oh will you now, you smooth talking devil....
hahaha ;D
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Totally agree with you George.
Most offer some kind of non Indian restaurant alternative, chips included, but I know my local kitchen would not use leftover chips to make their pre-cooked potatoes. Nor have I seen this in the 6 kitchens that I previously have had access to.
When I said in my last post "not a chip in sight" I meant not in the pre-cooked spuds. :)
I agree with you, PaulP and others who say we've never seen a chip-profiled piece of potato in any BIR dish. I always assumed any pre-cooking is by way of boiling but perhaps some BIRs do put cut up bits of potato in the same frier that they use for chips.
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Mick, thanks for posting the pics, it's an interesting insight into the pre-cooking of spuds. I don't suppose you have some rough measurements of ingredients used do you?
Can I also ask if the same recipe and technique is applied to the mixed veg and mushrooms?
If that is base in the background, its a very similar colour to the IG base.
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Mick, thats fabulous work. Thanks so much for sharing with us all. It looks like a delicious way to start off the spuds.
In relation to the test, we want to discover the best tasting recipe. I think it would be best if they were all made with a generic base and spice mix and normal boiled potatoes. Assuming there is an outright winner I'd be up for doing as Razor suggested and making that one to spec including Micks potato method. If we make them all with Micks method it will be more difficult to judge the recipes as the potatoes will presumably taste lovely.
As it's Friday and lots of people are raring to go on the test this weekend (I cant but I'll be doing them next weekend along with SP if he is free) lets draw a line under this and get cracking.
The Charlotte potatoes (the ones in Micks pics didn't look like Charlotte's by the way) will be par-boiled in water unless specified. A generic base will be used for all 5 recipes along with a standard spice mix.
All the recipes are on the first post on the first page (the OP). No one needs to ask if they can take part as this is open to everyone. Just IM me an email address and I'll send you the spreadsheet to fill in, or look at previous sets of results and copy the format.
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Mick, thanks for posting the pics, it's an interesting insight into the pre-cooking of spuds. I don't suppose you have some rough measurements of ingredients used do you?
I would also like to quantities if available, please Mick.
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Bloomin' Heck!
These 'charlotte potatoes' are a bit pricey! (Well you only get a small bag for
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Hi SP,
I actually missed what potato we was going to use and indeed, was going to use Maris Piper.
(shhhh, don't tell anyone, and I'll see if I can get away with it) ;)
Ray :)
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mmmmmmmmmmm dont tell anyone too :-X
Alan ;D
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We buy Charlottes in every week as we use them to make wedges as a replacement to anything that would have chips. I have made Saag Aloo with them before and I couldn't say that they were any better other than they don't fall apart if over cooked a little.
I'd normally go with a plain old white or what ever we have picked up as a standard spud.
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as long as you use the same spud for each recipe, it shouldnt matter should it?
i dont think any of the recipes specify a particular potato or do they?
i think if the same spud is used in all of the tests it shouldnt matter, i say that cos maris piper are easier to get hold of for me.
regards
Alan ;D
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Hi SP,
(shhhh, don't tell anyone, and I'll see if I can get away with it) ;)
Ray :)
ha ha! ;D no worries
I won't tell anyone :D
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as long as you use the same spud for each recipe, it shouldnt matter should it?
i dont think any of the recipes specify a particular potato or do they?
i think if the same spud is used in all of the tests it shouldnt matter, i say that cos maris piper are easier to get hold of for me.
regards
Alan ;D
Like your style! - and fully agree.
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thank you SS.
you have just removed any remaining guilt for me. ;D
Maris piper it is for me :o
Alan ;D
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Mick, thanks for posting the pics, it's an interesting insight into the pre-cooking of spuds. I don't suppose you have some rough measurements of ingredients used do you?
Can I also ask if the same recipe and technique is applied to the mixed veg and mushrooms?
If that is base in the background, its a very similar colour to the IG base.
@ Axe and Ramirez,
Going by memory and the fact that this was a very large pot of spuds I would suggest the following for home use.
As long as you understand this will be close but may not be totally true to the amounts the chef used..........disclaimer ;D
For 2 lb of potatoes,
150 ml of veg oil
1 tennis ball sized finely chopped onion
1 tablespoon of garlic/ginger paste
Cassia bark 2" x 1" piece
1 bay leaf (Asian)
1 tablespoon of panch phoran
1 teaspoon of salt
2 tablespoons of tomato puree watered down 50/50
2 teaspoons of turmeric powder
1 tablespoon of mix powder
Water to cover
The mixed veg are done the same way.
The mushrooms are a different matter, when I saw the way they were cooked I was very surprised....and thought that they wouldn't be upto much. Having tried the method I can say they are very good and have no complaints when used in mushroom rice or mushroom bhaji for example.
They used sliced button mushrooms simply boiled in water with a little mix powder, when cooked they were drained, put into a suitable container with a little veg oil mixed in. This stopped them drying out until needed in the dishes.
Cheers
Mick
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I am definatley going with that method of precooked spuds in the future.
thankyou Achmal
Alan ;D
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Thanks Mick. Will definitely be giving this a go at some point - maybe even for this group test.
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@ Axe and Ramirez,
Going by memory and the fact that this was a very large pot of spuds I would suggest the following for home use.......
Mick, thats dynomite you are a star. If we ever meet the first round is on me! :)
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Hi Guys
just to let you know, most asians around brum buy red potatoes. I supply loads of asian shops round Birmingham indirectly and they like them because they stand up better in the boil than most whites do. They do take a bit longer to cook tho. Cant really see any benefit other than that. The variety I grow and sell (mainly romano) dont taste much different to most other varieties so i wouldnt worry too much
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Drove over to Waitrose especially for the Charlottes, and they were GBP 2-19 for 2Kg, so not bad value (much more expensive if you were to buy them by the 500g bag). Anyhow, I more than compensated for any extra cost of Charlottes over Maris Pipers by buying four boxes of organic strawberries reduced from GBP 3-99 to GBP 0-99 each, and two packs of rhubarb reduced from GBP 2-99 to GBP 1-29 (total saving : GBP 15-40). Plus I re-stocked with Camp Coffee (for pouring over Cornish vanilla ice cream), which is unobtainable in Tesco's.
** Phil.
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The reason i use charlotte as i tried every variety inc maris piper and found that the charlotte looked the most appealing and kept their shape best. I find with maris piper etc that the quality varies dramatically with them being very floury and dry sometimes with the edges breaking off and the inside uncooked. good for mash!!
Just my thoughts. I will definitly give the red variety a go!
Barry
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UC - See below
Just checking : who is "UC" ? "UB" I would identify as "UncleBuck", but "UC" escapes me at the moment ...
** Phil.
-
undercover curry book
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Undercover Curry
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hi phil i believe it is supposed to be" undercover curry" mate lol
regards
gary
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Oh !
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Mick, thanks for posting the pics, it's an interesting insight into the pre-cooking of spuds. I don't suppose you have some rough measurements of ingredients used do you?
Can I also ask if the same recipe and technique is applied to the mixed veg and mushrooms?
If that is base in the background, its a very similar colour to the IG base.
@ Axe and Ramirez,
Going by memory and the fact that this was a very large pot of spuds I would suggest the following for home use.
As long as you understand this will be close but may not be totally true to the amounts the chef used..........disclaimer ;D
For 2 lb of potatoes,
150 ml of veg oil
1 tennis ball sized finely chopped onion
1 tablespoon of garlic/ginger paste
Cassia bark 2" x 1" piece
1 bay leaf (Asian)
1 tablespoon of panch phoran
1 teaspoon of salt
2 tablespoons of tomato puree watered down 50/50
2 teaspoons of turmeric powder
1 tablespoon of mix powder
Water to cover
The mixed veg are done the same way.
The mushrooms are a different matter, when I saw the way they were cooked I was very surprised....and thought that they wouldn't be upto much. Having tried the method I can say they are very good and have no complaints when used in mushroom rice or mushroom bhaji for example.
They used sliced button mushrooms simply boiled in water with a little mix powder, when cooked they were drained, put into a suitable container with a little veg oil mixed in. This stopped them drying out until needed in the dishes.
Cheers
Mick
This seems to be a revelation to many. For those who are not familiar with veg preparation in this way, your veg dishes are now about to go to the next level ;). I have been using a similar prep method for years for veg and meat and will post it in the appropriate section of the forum for those members that may wish to try it.
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As with the onion bhaji group test, I've taken all of the recipes for this group test and re-assembled them into a web page with consistent formatting, etc., for ease of reference. As there was a complaint from one Cr0 member when I did this for the onion bhaji test, I am not publishing the URL; I will be happy to supply it by p.m. if anyone would like to use/print the web page to assist them with their participation in the test.
** Phil.
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I have now posted the recipe i use for main ingredient and vegetable preparation in the supplementary recipe section of the forum for those who are interested
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Hi
Phil, I find it odd that others would complain about your efforts to assist, I offer apologies on behalf of members who value your efforts to help.
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thank you Phil
i apprceiate the link you sent through.
complainers please get a grip. we have good members so please utilise them to our advanage
alan
:(
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In deference to Chris's wishes that the test results remain confidential until all are in, I will say nothing about this evening's venture other than the following : Charlottes are out of this world when it comes to this dish; no matter what you throw at them, or for how long you cook them, they hold their shape and their texture to the very end. If you haven't started yet, don't compromise on the basis of cost : use Charlottes and you won't regret it.
** Phil.
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UC:
Here is the UC one - it is for Sag Aloo but the spinach is left out):
Chris, just comparing your online version (as incorporated into my web page) with Dave Loyden's original, and I discovered that he actually has a recipe for Bombay Aloo on page 64. Is there any reason why you chose the Sag Aloo version (minus Sag !) rather than the real thing ?
** Phipl.
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As with the onion bhaji group test, I've taken all of the recipes for this group test and reassembled them into a web page with consistent formatting, etc., for ease of reference. As there was a complaint from one Cr0 member when I did this for the onion bhaji test, I am not publishing the URL; I will be happy to supply it by p.m. if anyone would like to use/print the web page to assist them with their participation in the test.
Phil, as you know (because we have discussed it), I can see no compelling reason why you feel a need to take recipes from this forum and publish them elsewhere. I don't fully understand your reasons for doing so or why you can't do what you need to do here?
Irrespectively, what you are doing is in breach of individual copyright. Other recipe authors may not object to it (which is their right) but I do (which is my right). It is also in breach of this forums rules.
Phil, I find it odd that others would complain about your efforts to assist, I offer apologies on behalf of members who value your efforts to help
There is nothing "odd" about it commis. I also appreciate others' efforts to help but, in this case, this forums content is being taken and published elsewhere on the Internet (to a site called http://bir-recipes.org.uk (http://bir-recipes.org.uk), no less!) for reasons I do not understand.
It would be a simple matter for someone to put a front end, and structure, on that site, and they would have a viable curry cooking site with content taken from this forum! Though I am not suggesting Phil would do this (but others have), I think we should be mindful of the possibility and strive to protect copyright.
I, for one, object to my copyright material being published elsewhere without my express permission. That is my right, that is my position, and others should respect that.
complainers please get a grip. we have good members so please utilise them to our advanage
Sorry, moonster, but it would not be the first time that my (and others') copyright material has been taken from here and published elsewhere.
The consequence, for me, is that I am very reluctant to post any further recipes on this forum(hallelujah! you may cry! :P).
PS: I don't want to get into some heated, protracted debate and personal insults about "he said, she said, he said" and the ins and outs of copyright. I am simply stating my position for clarity.
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Response moved to "Forum Administration (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5569.new#new)".
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Hi All,
i am just about to start this test and i really want to precook the spuds using Micks, recipe.
do any of you think it will make a difference fo the purpose of the test. if so i will stick with the original recipes.
regards
alan ;D
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i am just about to start this test and i really want to precook the spuds using Micks, recipe.
do any of you think it will make a difference fo the purpose of the test. if so i will stick with the original recipes.
Bound to make a difference, but I agree : it's awfully tempting ! Still, best play by the rules for the purposes of the test, but maybe make a parallel batch with the Mick pre-cook and then you can do a real-time comparison and report.
My EUR 0,02 :)
** Phil.
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good idea phil, i will do a seperate batch of potatos for this test.
I will post my findings on the difference in quality between the two precooked potatos.
regards
Alan ;D
ps CA please carry on posting your recipes, I like many others enjoy trying your dishes.
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Phil, as you know (because we have discussed it), I can see no compelling reason why you feel a need to take recipes from this forum and publish them elsewhere. I don't fully understand your reasons for doing so or why you can't do what you need to do here?
Irrespectively, what you are doing is in breach of individual copyright. Other recipe authors may not object to it (which is their right) but I do (which is my right). It is also in breach of this forums rules.
I agree. I was shocked to read about Phil''s outrageous move. In my opinion, it's well out of order.
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I agree. I was shocked to read about Phil''s outrageous move. In my opinion, it's well out of order and Phil should probably be struck off as a result. Who the hell does he think he is?
My sarcasm detector nearly failed on me there....that was sarcasm, right?
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I agree. I was shocked to read about Phil''s outrageous move. In my opinion, it's well out of order and Phil should probably be struck off as a result. Who the hell does he think he is?
My sarcasm detector nearly failed on me there....that was sarcasm, right?
I'm serious. How can you think it's acceptable - unless pre-agreed with Stew (Admin) and others - to simply walk off with material from this forum and re-publish it on another web site?
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I'm not going to get involved in this, because quite frankly, I am sick of it. I'm glad I quoted what you originally wrote because I see you have conveniently edited your post now.
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jesus
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And i though political correctness was confined to Westminster and local town halls. How wrong i was. As for people being struck off, if this forum carries on behaving in this way, there will nobody left to strike off. They will have all left and gone over to the dark side, having been sickened to death by the petty bickering that seems to pervade many threads which end up going off topic and result in a squabble. We are all here because of one thing - our love and desire to cook BIR food. Can we just focus on that, or is that not what this site is about?
i have actually frequented this site for just over two years now, and can say that it is probably as good an authority on BIR cooking as you can get(short of having several restaurant chefs contributing regularly to steer us in the right direction). However, it does nothing for the site's reputation to see such bickering and infighting, especially when viewed by new members. There is nothing worse than seeing something good hit the self destruct button and then watching it begin to tear itself apart. Lets all focus on the reasons why we are all here.
Now I've got that off my chest, can we please get back on topic?
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I for one appreciate Phils(chaa) endeavour to simplify things in the group test as it helped me massivley today in conducting the aloo test. every recipe on one page thanks Phil
I can also understand any authors concerns, if it was say a newcomer like myself whom copied the recipes to another url then fair enough.
but chaa is a contributing member with good intentions and also gives a full and valid explanation in his earlier thread to CA.
BTW i enjoyed doing this test, i dont know which way it is going to go, different methods and recipes making it really interesting.
About too start the taste testing shortly blindfolded with mrs moony.
posting pics shortly
Alan ;D
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Mooney,
About too start the taste testing shortly blindfolded with mrs moony.
I'm gonna do that too but once the blindfold is on, I'm gonna sneak off to the pub ::) ;D
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having been sickened to death by the petty bickering that seems to pervade many threads which end up going off topic and result in a squabble.
This is not petty bickering. Copyright infringement and setting up a website (bir recipes) which looks like it might be lined up to compete with this one, is a potentially serious matter.
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good idea phil, i will do a seperate batch of potatos for this test.
I will post my findings on the difference in quality between the two precooked potatos.
regards
Alan ;D
ps CA please carry on posting your recipes, I like many others enjoy trying your dishes.
Hey moonster!
Did you manage to do your tests? got any photo's for us?
Planning to do a joint cook-a-long with Chris this Sat.
Quite excited to see all the scores!
Regards
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I already have his scores bit I've so far managed to avoid looking at them.
Sat pm should be fine to get them done at my house. I'll just double check with Mrs WG.
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Hi All,
boards been funny latley hasnt it!
enjoyed doing the group test, good fun.
lol at Razor thought better of against blind folding mrs moony, she might of thought she was on a promise ;D
please find attached the pics
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and more
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Mooney,
Looking good my friend, very good indeed. They all look quite different too, which I didn't expect.
Awsome effort fella, very well done,
Ray
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Great stuff moonster! Not started the test yet myself, but Chewy Tikka's looks the closest to what I would expect from a Bombay Aloo.
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Hi All,
boards been funny latley hasnt it!
enjoyed doing the group test, good fun.
lol at Razor thought better of against blind folding mrs moony, she might of thought she was on a promise ;D
please find attached the pics
To put no finer point on it - they all look sodding delicious! great work :)
The under cover curry one looks a tad peculiar though - a little, well, sitting in dark juice? - could just be the lighting though ;)
BTW - I try to never blindfold the wife either ;D they always get the wrong idea - like when I'm trying to get up to no good.
Nice one!
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Ray,
when i started the test i wasnt expecting there to be much difference in presentation either but with the different methods of cookinga the recipes each produced an alternative dish in both taste, appearance and texture!!
i cant wait to use micks method of par boiling veg the next time i make a bombay aloo.
thanks for the kind comments Ray and Ramirez.
I really enjoyed participating in a group test for the first time and would do so again.
regards
Alan ;D
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The pictures look great Moonster, looks like some hard work went ito them to me.
What I do notice is they all look pretty dry (apart from UC which looks erm different ;D, but all the same it may taste great :D) as here in Doncaster all the bombay aloo 's I have had do have quite a bit of curry sauce on them, but again it may just show how big the regional differences are in BIR cookery.
Well done, I would like to participate in one of the group tests soon, time permitting ::)
cheers
Will
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Brilliant pics Moonster, I'm really looking forward on getting ours done this weekend.
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Sterling effort Moonster. :o I would love to blind taste that lot. :P May just have to have a go myself at this. Looking forward to the results coming in and the comments from all. :D
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Solar and I had a great afternoon of Bombay Aloo cooking on Saturday. It's interesting to watch other people cook and the different techniques. We made all 6 using plain boiled potatoes and scored them separately (with the help of our other halves).
I have 4 full sets of results now. I'll give it a couple of weeks before publishing so everyone who wants to take part has time. There are a couple of definite patterns emerging. It will be nice to see how this progresses with more results. One thing that might have been useful would have been to have had a proper takeaway one to compare against.
I took some pics so will post them when we get a chance.
Chris
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Solar and I had a great afternoon of Bombay Aloo cooking on Saturday. It's interesting to watch other people cook and the different techniques. We made all 6 using plain boiled potatoes and scored them separately (with the help of our other halves).
I have 4 full sets of results now. I'll give it a couple of weeks before publishing so everyone who wants to take part has time. There are a couple of definite patterns emerging. It will be nice to see how this progresses with more results.
Chris, did you & Solar use plain boiled potatoes even for his recipe [1] ? In the published version (which I have followed), they are to be pre-cooked in turmeric.
I have two completed so far, and hope to have completed all six before you need to publish the results.
** Phil.
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[1] * Boil approx potatoes in salted water with tumeric until not quite cooked.
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Sorry yes. I meant we didn't use the Mick approach as we had planned to do once the tests were complete. Solar brought turmeric cooked spuds for his recipe.
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Ha ha!
Yes Saturday was a proper beer and curry cooking fest! did you ever manage to get your cooker clean again Chris? - really jealous of that BTW your range is seriously excellent to cook curry on!
Had to shower and get clean clothes on when I got home - absolutely reeked of curry ;) lovely smelling curry though!
Did you notice at the end after all your garlic masala experiments that kitchen was in its own curry vapour cloud?
ATB
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To put no finer point on it - they all look sodding delicious! great work :)
That's disgusting. The use of that word strikes me as the opposite of 'fine points' or anything delicious. You should perhaps check the meaning of words before you use them.
See here:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sodding (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sodding)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sod_(vulgarity) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sod_(vulgarity))
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy)
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Very eager to see the pics from SS and Chris' curry marathon!
Post them! ;D
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Yes it was great fun and Rachel eventually managed to get the range clean :)
The house still has a lovely aroma of curry but apparently despite 2 baths my pores are still stinking! That garlic chilli massala (Micks video) was very nice indeed, probably the nicest sauce I have cooked. Browning the garlic so much really makes a difference.
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SP and Chris,
I think what the pair of you have done is nothing short of amazing. Results apart, you two will undoubtedly get the most from this test because of your collaboration. As Chris pointed out, just watching someone else's cooking style is worth it's weight in gold from a learning perspective.
Great work lads, well done.
Ray :)
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Sp and Chris,
Well done both of you,
Some bloody good work done ;)
Mick
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This may have already been spoken about, but is there a reason why the recipe from the OP for the Undercover Curry Bombay is not the same as the book?
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This may have already been spoken about, but is there a reason why the recipe from the OP for the Undercover Curry Bombay is not the same as the book?
I did ask Chris (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5537.msg54522#msg54522) that, but I think he may have missed my message. What he has done is to take the Aloo Sag recipe from page 74, removed the Sag, and adjust the spices accordingly, rather than use the Bombay Aloo recipe from page 64. I suspect (but can't be sure) that he simply failed to spot the Bombay Aloo recipe.
** Phil.
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Cheers Phil.
I suppose if everyone has made the recipe as per the OP, then all should be fine. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of working from the book last night, but I can simply make it again using the recipe from the OP. ;D
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That reminds me, any chance of posting the photo's Chris?
Regards
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I shall be doing the test this weekend so would like to know which receipe to refer to. I feel we should be following the the correct recipe, otherwise our results will be misleading. In which case we should probably omit the recipe from the results?
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I don't think there is any harm in including it in the group test assuming everyone has used the recipe from the OP. It's a shame it's not the genuine Bombay Aloo recipe from the book though.
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Hi
Chris & I did the one from the OP.
Ta
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For the sake of completeness, if someone can post the recipe please, i'll do both of them.
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For the sake of completeness, if someone can post the recipe please, i'll do both of them.
"To hear is to obey."
"Undercover Curry Bombay Aloo" (Copyright (C) 2010 Dave Loyden)
- oil
- garlic
- dipping
- patia sauce (or mango chutney)
- potatoes (1--2 medium, pre-cooked)
- methi
- gravy
Dipping : salt, cumin, garlic & ginger puree, tandoori masala, cjilli powder.
- 1. Into the pan with 2 curry spoons of nicely spiced onion bhaji (or similar) oil.
- 2. Add garlic, and stir.
- 3. Dipping -- salt, cumin, garlic & ginger puree, tandoori masala, chilli powder. Stir.
- 4. Add either patia sauce or mango chutney. (This adds sweetness, but in a natural way, without being too obvious about it.) Stir.
- 5. Now the potatoes -- 1 or 2 medium, pre-cooked potatoes, chopped into bite-sized chunks. (A nice alternative is to use tinned, cold, new potatoes. This does change the flavour a little, but try it sometime.)
- 6. Add a good four-finger pinch of methi (fenugreek leaf) and stir.
- 7. Add gravy, but just enough to cover. Stir.
- 8. Turn up the heat and reduce until it's quite thick
Done.
** Phil.
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"To hear is to obey."
"Undercover Curry Bombay Aloo" (Copyright (C) 2010 Dave Loyden)
Very naughty - criminal even. You make a mockery of the author's copyright by mentioning his rights followed immediately by the recipe. I would applaud if you are prosecuted. Once again, you are out of order.
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"To hear is to obey."
"Undercover Curry Bombay Aloo" (Copyright (C) 2010 Dave Loyden)
Very naughty - criminal even. You make a mockery of the author's copyright by mentioning his rights followed immediately by the recipe. I would applaud if you are prosecuted. Once again, you are out of order.
Thoroughly charming and pleasantly worded post as usual George ;)
Bit harsh to single out Phil in such an aggressive way when the site has several recipes taken from other copyrighted works in many of its sections. Heck! even Admin gave consent for one poster to link to a torrent on pirate bay http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5588.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5588.0)
Phil has made it thoroughly clear that the work is Copyright (C) 2010 Dave Loyden, more than several other posts have bothered to do when publishing other books recipes.
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Very naughty - criminal even. You make a mockery of the author's copyright by mentioning his rights followed immediately by the recipe. I would applaud if you are prosecuted. Once again, you are out of order.
Perhaps George, as CR0's self-appointed barrack-room lawyer, you would like to explain how your direct citation of text from one of Delia Smith's books (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5602.msg55101#msg55101) differs in any material way from my citation of text from one of Dave Loyden's (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5537.msg55351;topicseen#msg55351), with the single exception that I did Dave the courtesy of acknowledging his copyright up front, while you simply included a facsimile of Delia's prose without any acknowledgement of copyright whatsoever.
** Phil.
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Perhaps George, as CR0's self-appointed barrack-room lawyer, you would like to explain how your direct citation of text from one of Delia Smith's books differs in any material way from my citation of text from one of Dave Loyden's
I don't need to be a professional or armchair lawyer to know you are almost certainly breaking the law by writing out that recipe. What's copyright law for, if it's not to stop that sort of thing? Why buy the book if recipes can be found for free?
My presentation of a few lines out of a Delia book introduction is completely different. The use of short extracts is allowed. i didn't write up any of Delia's recipes. The introduction is like a promotion, with which I agree.
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For God's sake, can we take this out of this thread? If there are any problems, talk to Stew.
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I don't want to muddy this topic any more than it has been but I would like to draw peoples attention to the following link: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/section/30 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/section/30) which is taken from the Copyright, Designs & Patent Act 1988
I have no legal authority so do not accept this as accurate but from what I read in section 30, we are not infringing Copyright by reviewing a recipe as long as clear acknowledgement is given to the first owner of copyright, which is exactly what Phil has done.
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Very naughty - criminal even. You make a mockery of the author's copyright by mentioning his rights followed immediately by the recipe. I would applaud if you are prosecuted. Once again, you are out of order.
(http://agitprop.typepad.com/agitprop/images/2007/09/23/clouseau.gif)
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I 'eup you 'ave ze permission to use zat pheuteugraph ...
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I 'eup you 'ave ze permission to use zat pheuteugraph ...
tr?s dr?le Phil
So much for the french translator then
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hi george but it is not copyright fraud you have to write exactly word for word to commit fraud, luckily for us phil does not know his chilli powder from his cjilli powder psml. so we should be fine! isn't cjilli polish for chilli? lol. and btw george as long as he does not portray himself as the author of said recipe.
hope this is not taken the wrong way lol
oops
regards
gary ;D
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How are people getting on with this group test? Not sure when Chris is hoping to publish the results, but I am hoping to have them all finished by Tuesday next week (only one remaining).
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Hi
Great work!
I am hoping that Chris will have time to get those pictures up soon, you will not believe the mess we made cooking all the test candidates :o
Cheers
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I am making up the Taz base and hoping to complete the tests, this weekend. I got side tracked using up my remaining Kushi base. ::)
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I'll publish them all when I have these last two sets - unless anyone else is doing them? The pics are on the camera at home and I always forget in the evenings - too busy playing LOTRO.
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too busy playing LOTRO.
Are we allowed to guess which CR0 member has chosen Gollum as his character ?
** Phil.
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Yup! guess away. ;D
Regards
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Tests now complete, i'll get the results compiled tomorrow Chris.
This test has really been worth while for me and I feel I have learnt much from it. Not least as it is the first time I have used the Taz base but also to what makes these dishes tick, so to speak.
I'll let the results speak for themselves, but for me there were two front runners with a third very close behind. Having not had this dish in a restaurant it was hard for me to gauge the dishes so I simply went with my instinct.
Anyway, here are the pics and before anyone asks we didn't just eat spuds, we also had CBM's tikka which is out of shot, but was very tasty. :)
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w56/_Axe_/ba_table.jpg)
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w56/_Axe_/ba_dpr.jpg)
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w56/_Axe_/ba_ct.jpg)
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w56/_Axe_/ba_sp.jpg)
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w56/_Axe_/ba_uc.jpg)
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w56/_Axe_/ba_abc.jpg)
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w56/_Axe_/ba_976.jpg)
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Fab pics Axe. We'll have to compare notes on what we learned from the test. Here are some of our pics:
<img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_8ZixU3Nbf9c/TXyBh98xONI/AAAAAAAAAkc/1eSUzunYnx4/s640/DSC03991.JPG" height="480" width="640" /> (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/UqUoCV6FXE5dW6PTS_vsqA?feat=embedwebsite)
<img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_8ZixU3Nbf9c/TXyBiMsfrbI/AAAAAAAAAkk/GheY9nW2jiM/s640/DSC03993.JPG" height="480" width="640" /> (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/5hD0rn-RoxMCupECWqZtIA?feat=embedwebsite)
<img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_8ZixU3Nbf9c/TXyBhry385I/AAAAAAAAAkY/M5EW6rU7qg0/s640/DSC03992.JPG" height="480" width="640" /> (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GJetFlYnEx5WbHvKqBHSeg?feat=embedwebsite)
<img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_8ZixU3Nbf9c/TXyB1Dps0ZI/AAAAAAAAAkw/4fltmuHVgDs/s640/DSC03995.JPG" height="480" width="640" /> (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3q_dUurQvNrD9gwXm8T7Ww?feat=embedwebsite)
<img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_8ZixU3Nbf9c/TXyB1BbKQRI/AAAAAAAAAk0/iugXHxOxMRg/s640/DSC03996.JPG" height="480" width="640" /> (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fa7imDD6_FRHTUIRhgdGNQ?feat=embedwebsite)
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@Axe
Great pictures and presentation, hope your guests enoyed the food? (table for 4) :)
@Chris
mmm, the mess we made does not look too bad in those pictures ;) great photos :)
All the best
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Chris, I picked up quite a few things from the tests which I'll gladly compare notes on. Some of them not directly related to the recipes some are.
Such as, an undersized pan gives better results than an oversized pan. Infact, it has made me realise how import pan size is to the amount of base and reduction.
Also, how easy it is to clean down an electric hob compared to gas. :P
Solar, family of 4, the wife, my two daughters and I. :) My youngest has a very good palette too and is able to spot the smallest details. Perfect for these tests.
Pics paint a thousand words, nice job guys.
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These photos all look fab! What a lovely looking feast!
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Oh my word - severe tactical error on my part reading a thread like this when I'm hungry. Those Aloos look utterly delicious, will have to give some a try myself.
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great stuff all, love the pics. cant wait for the results now ;D
al ;D
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I've PM'd the results, Chris.
Pics are below. There was a clear winner for me and it's a recipe I shall be making a lot in the future I imagine. Looking forward to the results (I think I am the last to submit results).
Russ' (solarsplace)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5093/5518202290_6ef8e19d31_z.jpg)
Dip's
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5298/5518220058_55f14f1e46_z.jpg)
976bar's
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5253/5529814953_b3dc732175_z.jpg)
Undercover Curry
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5257/5518217900_ea03ac3a11_z.jpg)
Chewytikka's
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5257/5518215456_d13f0d027f_z.jpg)
Authentic Balti Cookbook
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5014/5517624967_932b5e197f_z.jpg)
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Hi Ramirez
Great effort & pictures! they all look absolutely delicious.
Excited to see the results now :)
All the best
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they all look absolutely delicious.
Don' they just, well done. :)
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They look amazing!!!!!!!
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Thanks guys. Looking forward to the results now! :)
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Are all the results now in or are we waiting for a few others?
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I'm considering cooking up some Bombay Aloo to go with my Chicken Tikka tomorrow, but which one? Will look forward to the results of this test!
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I think I have them all in now, I'll get them up as soon as I can.
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Going by memory and the fact that this was a very large pot of spuds I would suggest the following for home use.
As long as you understand this will be close but may not be totally true to the amounts the chef used..........disclaimer ;D
For 2 lb of potatoes,
150 ml of veg oil
1 tennis ball sized finely chopped onion
1 tablespoon of garlic/ginger paste
Cassia bark 2" x 1" piece
1 bay leaf (Asian)
1 tablespoon of panch phoran
1 teaspoon of salt
2 tablespoons of tomato puree watered down 50/50
2 teaspoons of turmeric powder
1 tablespoon of mix powder
Water to cover
The mixed veg are done the same way.
Cheers
Mick
The other night the curry craving hit me, as it does at least twice weekly :). I fancied some bombay aloo with it. Whilst my bombay aloo is quite respectable i can't seem to get that BIR flavour to penetrate the spuds. It always looks the business but is found lacking when i bite into the spud. Maybe it's just me being over critical :-\. So i thought i'd take advantage of the hard work done by member of this forum who took the time and trouble to do the group test on bombay aloo ;). So i read through the thread and decided on cooking Solarsplace's, as it came out top on taste. Just to make it interesting i thought i'd pre-cook the spuds using Currybarking Mad's posted method. Well, ;D ;D ;D ;D i've got to say spuds will definitely be precooked using this recipe again. The smell in the kitchen during the cooking was absolutely BIR :o. Now came the acid test. Had that lovely smell actually got into the spuds???I tasted the finished article and there it was, that characteristic slightly sweet subtly spiced flavour that all good bombay potato has. And this was all before i even cooked the dish :o.
Next i set to using Solarsplace's recipe using half my precooked spuds. Verdict a very nice dish, full of taste with a depth of flavour rather than a portion of spuds just coated in a sauce which can be the case with your average bombay aloo. This was quickly followed by Razor's Chicken Tikka Rogan Josh and special fried rice less any spice (a little experiment on my part) End result -
Tonight i decided to use up my lovely precooked spud using the runner up's version to see how it compared. So dug out Dip's recipe and cooked it up but added a portion of saag when adding the spud to give me one of my favourite accompaniments. Got to say, again the results were very good and as good as get from my local BIR. The only thing i did with Dip's recipe was to cook for longer toreduce the sauce. There is nothing more off putting when a veg side dish comes up looking like a vegetable curry and potentially from comments made already, there was a danger of this. The result -
Thanks to all who took part. That's another one i can cross off the list
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my local uses new potatoes,
very nice.
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Curryhell thanks for taking the time to do this, your meal looks fantastic. When I first found the site there was little or no photographs I can imagine a newbie joining now and finding your post this morning and thinking they must have landed in curry heaven. Can you share which rice recipe you used? PP
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Great pics curryhell!
I really enjoyed Solar's recipe when I did the group test. It's unlike Bombay Aloo I usually have, but it has a great taste in its own right.
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Great pics curryhell!
I really enjoyed Solar's recipe when I did the group test. It's unlike Bombay Aloo I usually have, but it has a great taste in its own right.
:D Thanks Ramirez. And there lies the last 5% we're all looking for mate which i think we'll never all agree on :-\. There are obviously regional differences up and down the country of which some will be quite considerable. We are all trying to emulate dishes that we are familiar with through personal experience and all our experiences are different. For me Solarsplace's bombay aloo and Dips for that matter are very close to what i'd expect in my neck of the woods. Maybe i clouded the issue by precooking the spuds. Next time i won't just to see what difference it makes but i'm sure it'll be quite a marked difference in taste. Out of interest which recipe was the closest to what you would expect from a bombay aloo??
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Curryhell thanks for taking the time to do this, your meal looks fantastic. When I first found the site there was little or no photographs I can imagine a newbie joining now and finding your post this morning and thinking they must have landed in curry heaven. Can you share which rice recipe you used? PP
As they say PP, a picture paints a thousand words. On this site it's like being inside a BIR ;D. Many of those posted on here you can virtually taste and smell the dishes :P. I don't use a recipe posted on this site for my basic pilau rice. My own recipe is based on close examination of pilaus from restaurants when i first started my journey many years ago. There were a few tweaks and subtle changes but it hasn't changed now for many a year. It is exactly what i'd expect when ordering in a BIR, in this part of the world anyway ;D and it turns out perfect everytime. I am more than happy to post it in the appropriate section. This thread is worth a read while i type it up :D http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5779.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5779.0)
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Great pics curryhell!
I really enjoyed Solar's recipe when I did the group test. It's unlike Bombay Aloo I usually have, but it has a great taste in its own right.
:D Thanks Ramirez. And there lies the last 5% we're all looking for mate which i think we'll never all agree on :-\. There are obviously regional differences up and down the country of which some will be quite considerable. We are all trying to emulate dishes that we are familiar with through personal experience and all our experiences are different. For me Solarsplace's bombay aloo and Dips for that matter are very close to what i'd expect in my neck of the woods. Maybe i clouded the issue by precooking the spuds. Next time i won't just to see what difference it makes but i'm sure it'll be quite a marked difference in taste. Out of interest which recipe was the closest to what you would expect from a bombay aloo??
If I recall correctly, it was the Undercover Bombay that I felt was the most authentic. Unfortunately, the result categories don't include something for 'authenticity', although it has been spoken of. Taste doesn't quite fit the bill, as something can taste great, but not be authentic.
They were all good dishes though and I enjoyed each and every one of them.
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If I recall correctly, it was the Undercover Bombay that I felt was the most authentic. Unfortunately, the result categories don't include something for 'authenticity', although it has been spoken of. Taste doesn't quite fit the bill, as something can taste great, but not be authentic.
They were all good dishes though and I enjoyed each and every one of them.
The trouble with authenticity is that it will tend to be subjective and influenced by each individuals own experience and expectation. But i do think that a general consensus could be reached as to which dishes come close to the BIR dish under test. Maybe the next group test could include a mark for authenticity. This would probably reflect regional differences and a good talking point too ;D ;D
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This is the basic BIR Bombay Potatoes! anything else added to this makes it something else.
e.g. cumin seeds = Jheera Aloo, which I like.
and my favourite, Aloo Manchurian, which is Indo/Chinese and amazing.
Chewy, could you please post your recipe for Aloo Manchurian, maybe in a new thread? I wouldn't mind trying a new potato based dish if you're happy to share the details?