Curry Recipes Online
British Indian Restaurant Recipes - Main Dishes => British Indian Restaurant Recipes - Main Dishes => Madras => Topic started by: Peripatetic Phil on March 31, 2011, 02:18 PM
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This is based on KD1/PT, using the new pressure-cooked base KD1/PC, with additional spices, and replacing the Methi powder by Methi leaves.
- 5 tablespoons vegetable oil
- 3/4 pint KD1/PC base (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5671.msg56167)
- 8 oz pre-cooked Chicken
- 1 teaspoon Al Noor Bassar Curry Masala (for flavour)
- 1 teaspoon MDH Kashmiri Mirch (for colour)
- 1 teaspoon MDH Degghi Mirch (for heat)
- 1 teaspoon Salt
- 1 teaspoon Ground Cumin
- 1 teaspoon Methi leaves
- 1/4 teaspoon Chat Masala (to add a slight touch of sourness)
- 1/8 Lime, whole
- 1 tablespoon chopped fresh Coriander stalk
- A little chopped fresh Coriander leaf for garnish
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Hi Phil
As I said before in a previous thread, the curry certainly looks delicious :P
The 1 x tsp of salt makes me worry that it would be too much and taste very salty?
I assume that you find it perfectly seasoned at that level?
Cheers
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As I said before in a previous thread, the curry certainly looks delicious :P
Thank you. Incidentally, I can confirm that the colours are accurate (at least, if viewed on a PC running Windows with a CRT monitor) : I colour-corrected the image with the curry alongside me until it was impossible to see any difference at all !
The 1 x tsp of salt makes me worry that it would be too much and taste very salty? I assume that you find it perfectly seasoned at that level?
Yes, I do, which is not to say that you or anyone else will necessarily agree. At the table I continued to grind salt onto the chicken, so clearly to my taste buds it was not over-salty, but "your mileage might vary", as they say. Even so, 1 teaspoon salt distributed through 3/4 pint stock and 8 oz chicken doesn't seem excessive (to me !).
** Phil.
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Looks very good indeed Phil, very colourful. :)
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Hi Phil,
Like the guy's have said, it looks really good.
I do share SP's concerns over the level of salt but I think you have mentioned before that you do quite like highly salted dishes?
For those who do not have access to some of your ingredients,
Bassar curry masala = Spice mix
MDH Deggi Mirch = Hot chilli powder
MDH Kashmiri Mirch = Paprika
Of course, your ingredients will produce better results if expense is something to go off!
I have never added any extra cumin into my Madras before, going to try that this evening, as I do love cumin/jeera. I'm also going to up the veg oil to your suggested 5 tbs. It's more than I usually use but hey ho, it's nearly weekend ;D
Oooo, just noticed, no tom puree? I like, I like a lot ;D I've ruined many a good dish with overdoing the tom puree.
Great looking dish Phil, well done.
Ray :)
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Bassar curry masala = Spice mix
MDH Deggi Mirch = Hot chilli powder
MDH Kashmiri Mirch = Paprika
I can only go along with one of those, I'm afraid. Yes, MDH Degghi Mirch could be substituted by generic "hot chilli powder", but the other two are just W R O N G :(
Bassar Curry Masala contains the folllowing (sorry, no ratios given) :
- chilli powder
- coriander powder
- turmeric powder
- mustard oil
- fenugreek leaves
- cumin powder
- bay leaves
- mustard seeds
- cardamom powder
- cinnamon powder
- black pepper powder
- cloves
- fenugreek powder
- nutmeg powder.
Also I deliberately smelled the Kashmiri Mirch when I opened it yesterday and there is no way that it is paprika. It is pure chilli, but a bright red mild chilli, not an orange fiery one.
Great looking dish Phil, well done.
Thank you, Ray ! And when you've tried it, please let us know how you feel it compares with your variant of Madras 2011, because I've now tried two or three times to replicate that and failed to come up with a "Eureka moment".
** Phil.
P.S.
I'm also going to up the veg oil to your suggested 5 tbs. It's more than I usually use but hey ho, it's nearly weekend ;D
If you do, you should expect to have to pour some off before serving; I always aim for an excess of oil, which I can then remove, in preference to insufficient with the accompanying negative effect on flavour.
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Phillip,
I'm not saying that they are complete substitutes, I'm saying that, that would be the BIR equivalent.
The Bassar, is basically a superior curry powder than say a standard madras curry powder but does contain many of the same ingredients.
Kashmiri mirch is more akin to a hot paprika, again, far superior though.
It's doubtful that the BIR's or TA's would use Deggi Mirch, Kashmiri Mirch or Bassar masala, if they can produce equally as good a result using less expensive alternatives.
Have you wet fingered each of the powders for a taste comparison to my suggestions?
Ray :)
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I'm not saying that they are complete substitutes, I'm saying that, that would be the BIR equivalent.
Mumble mumble ...
The Bassar, is basically a superior curry powder than say a standard madras curry powder but does contain many of the same ingredients.
It also comes in catering-sized packs, which suggests to me that it is used in some BIR kitchens, although I willingly agree not in all. It is a Pakistani product, so perhaps in BIRs run by Pakistani chefs rather than Indian, Bangladeshi or whatever.
Kashmiri mirch is more akin to a hot paprika, again, far superior though.
Really can't agree !
It's doubtful that the BIR's or TA's would use Deggi Mirch, Kashmiri Mirch or Bassar masala, if they can produce equally as good a result using less expensive alternatives.
Bassar is really not expensive when bought in catering-sized packs. I haven't personally been able to obtain any MDH product in a catering-sized pack, but they are definitely available in 500g.
Have you wet fingered each of the powders for a taste comparison to my suggestions?
Off to do that this very second ;D OK, test complete.
In order tested, used Greek yoghurt and cold water to cleanse palate between tests.
- Paprika : immediate hint of chilli con carne, followed by overtones of goulash.
- Kashmiri Mirch : pure chilli flavour, heat quite overpowering.
- IG spice mix : basically generic curry powder in flavour, with sweet overtones.
- Bassar Curry Masala : hot, rich, complex.
P.S. MDH web site is suspended : better stock up while we can ...
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Hi
Kashmiri Mirch is a special chilli powder of unprecedented beauty.
In a single BIR size portion approx:
1 x tbsp = madras (fairly hot)
1 x heaped tbsp = vindaloo
Instant 'radiant whole-mouth encompassing quality tasty heat'
I very much like that you have included it in your recipe :)
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Good looking curry Phil. Nice to see some KD recipes being developed by forum members. If I'm not mistaken that's six pieces of chicken - is that your std portion size or was this just for the picture? As I've said before I usually do ten pieces per portion (yes I'm a greed git!).
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Looks great Phil - trouble is it's giving me a curry craving now and my dinner tonight is roast beef + extensive trimmings :-\
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Looks great Phil - trouble is it's giving me a curry craving now and my dinner tonight is roast beef + extensive trimmings :-\
Let's swap : I could murder a roast beef with all the trimmings ! Incidentally, herself has just returned home and says "This place smells just like the Taj of Kent" :) The trouble is, she meant it as a complaint :( :( :(
** Phil.
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The trouble is, she meant it as a complaint
The best complaint you'll ever receive! ;)
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Good looking curry Phil. Nice to see some KD recipes being developed by forum members. If I'm not mistaken that's six pieces of chicken - is that your std portion size or was this just for the picture? As I've said before I usually do ten pieces per portion (yes I'm a greedy git!).
The six pieces were what was left after I'd eaten my fill ! I used 8 oz of chicken, but didn't count how many pieces that was; my portions are normally enough for two (or for one person for two days), so I would imagine there were about 12 when I started.
Didn't get to finish it up this evening, as while turning out the 'fridge I found some week-old steak-and-kidney that needed eating up :(
** Phil.
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Even with my portly size, I find that I am always over doing portions. 5 peices of average sized chicken is ample. That is roughly a small to medium chicken breast, what would that weigh?
Do you usually only use about 210ml of base for a portion? This might be something I need to look at.
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Do you usually only use about 210ml of base for a portion? This might be something I need to look at.
Not sure if that one is directed at me or at Steven. If at me, then "only in a sense", in that I never make a single portion. My portions are based on 3/4 pints base (426.195 ml) to 8 oz pre-cooked chicken (226.796 gm), and that makes enough for a meal for two or two meals for one.
** Phil.
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Thanks Phil, I only mention it as alot of recipes call for about 300ml per portion and in some of the videos, you can clearly see even more than that being used.
How long and on what heat do you cook the dish when the base is added?
Also, how thin is the KD1 base?
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Hi Phil
Looks like a good Madras variant and I'm sure it tasted good with Kashmiri and Deggi chilli included.
I prefer Kashmiri for it's great flavour, but I have used Deggi and it is quite similar heat wise and gives good colour, but not quite there for my taste.
Using Bassar Masala and Cumin would definitely lean it towards a Pakistani BIR flavour,
I would say most Bangladeshis wouldn't even know what Bassar Masala was!
It brought back memories of this small pakistani guy in his shop "The Spice Souk" in my town
and I used to buy his homemade Masala, which he called "Top 30",
being that it was his secret blend of 30 spices and it was simply amazing! Wish I could get it nowadays!
I use alot of taste enhancers in my currying, if you like MDH or Mangal products
you might want to give Kitchen King or Kashmiri Masala a go.
Oops 12.30am, I'll have to fire up the kitchen, I'm salivating, cheers.
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Thanks Phil, I only mention it as alot of recipes call for about 300ml per portion and in some of the videos, you can clearly see even more than that being used.
Then they must be aiming for a significant reduction, because 3/4 pint for two portions always seems to result in a little sauce to be carried over for next time. What is interesting with this base is the speed with which it goes from thin to ready; you think you are going to need to remove the chicken to avoid overcooking and then reduce the remaining base, but as you start to do so you suddenly discover that it has miraculously already achieved the desired consistency.
Or, an alternative hypothesis : thinking of Stephen Lindsay's recent comment (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5672.msg56194#msg56194), perhaps the standard definition of "a portion" is closer to my "double portion", for which about 425ml of base is required. What weight of chicken would you expect to need in order to create a "standard portion" ?
How long and on what heat do you cook the dish when the base is added?
These are the relevant bits :
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I use alot of taste enhancers in my currying, if you like MDH or Mangal products
you might want to give Kitchen King or Kashmiri Masala a go.
Now that is interesting, because I bought some Kashmiri Masala for my abortive attempt at the onion bhaji test, but mine is Patak's, and on looking at the label I see it actually says "Kashmiri Masala Curry Paste Chilli & Garlic Hot", so I now wonder if I bought the wrong thing ? I asked for help in the Gurkha shop, and this was what the lady owner produced when I asked for Kashmiri Masala. Kitchen King I have seen but not tried.
I confess that I haven't tried flavour enhancers in Indian cuisine, although of course I use them in Chinese; when experimenting with the Taz base, I uses fresh chicken stock and/or Knorr Chicken Stock Pots to liven it up, but now I have gone back to KD1 I feel no need for extra flavour : all the flavour I want is already there !
Incidentally, this is my first excursion into MDH products : I wanted to try out Degghi Mirch and Kashmiri Mirch to see what they contributed, and I definitely like the effect.
** Phil.
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Hi Phil
The restaurants around here all use the Pataks Kashmiri Massala paste that you described. I bet it goes into more dishes than you would imagine.
Chris
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Phil, thanks for the detailed reply, it sounds like the base is quite thin. I'm certainly going to test this out with my next batch of base. I know the chef at the IG was quite keen to show me how thin his base was. I am beginning to think I am not adding enough water to thin the base after blending.
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The restaurants around here all use the Pataks Kashmiri Massala paste that you described. I bet it goes into more dishes than you would imagine.
Ah ...
Phil, thanks for the detailed reply, it sounds like the base is quite thin. I'm certainly going to test this out with my next batch of base. I know the chef at the IG was quite keen to show me how thin his base was. I am beginning to think I am not adding enough water to thin the base after blending.
Well, there would have been little water loss during the pressure cooking phase, and the open pan phase with the tomato is short in comparison, so I felt no need to add any water after blending. On the other hand, the base definitely doesn't leave a spoon clean if you fill one and then pour out the contents, and as you stir it you know you are stirring something with suspended solids rather than a pure liquid. I am wondering how I can photograph the base to demonstrate its thickness; more when I have worked it out !
OK, below shows the lid of the storage container at an angle of 85 degrees (i.e., near vertical) with the base clinging to it; this may help to visualise its consistency. As far as verbal description goes, I really think that Baxter's Lobster Bisque is about as close as it gets : I might open one for lunch today (if I remember to defrost a loaf) and then I can do a real comparison.
** Phil.
(http://bir-recipes.org.uk/cr0/screen-captures/KD1-PC/IMG_1497-1.JPG)
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Hi Phil,
I think the Kashmiri masala that chewy talks of is actually a powder, not a paste? Kitchen King and Chicken Masala, also great flavour additions.
Ray :)
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I think the Kashmiri masala that chewy talks of is actually a powder, not a paste?
Yes, I was beginning to fear that !
Kitchen King and Chicken Masala, also great flavour additions.
OK, I shall look out for them next time I am Tunbridge Wells. As far as I could seem, the Gurkha shops in Ashford don't keep the MDH range, but the shop in Tunbridge Wells most certainly does and I shall be over there at least twice if not three times in the next week or so ...
** Phil.
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Hi Phil,
The Kitchen King, Kashmiri Masala and Chicken Masala that I use, are all 'Mangal' There is anither brand that I have seen 'shaan' that do these products also. I can't recall seeing them by MDH but it's possible.
Ray :)
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The Kitchen King, Kashmiri Masala and Chicken Masala that I use, are all 'Mangal' There is anither brand that I have seen 'shaan' that do these products also. I can't recall seeing them by MDH but it's possible.
OK, Shan I know and have used (their "Nihari" (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Shan-Nihari-Curry-Mix.html) mix; has anyone else eaten authentic Nihari ? Khanh & I love it.); with the MDH web site (http://mdhspices.com/) down (are they going into liquidation, one fears ?) it is hard to check their full range. Mangal is new to me, but checking their web site (http://www.mangalmasala.com/products.htm) I see they offer a similar range to MDH.
** Phil.
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This may be of some use to you Phil: http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?SS=mdh&ACTION=Go&PR=-1&TB=A&SHOP= (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?SS=mdh&ACTION=Go&PR=-1&TB=A&SHOP=)
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This may be of some use to you Phil:
Thank you !
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Hi Phil,
Just been doing a web search on Paprika, following our debate yesterday. It seems that Hot Paprika is infact made from mild chilli peppers and not capsicum, as used for sweet/standard paprika.
Sooooo, I will stand by my comparison that Kashmiri Mirch could, in certain circumsatnces, be substituted with Hot Paprika!
:P :P :P
Paprika is a red powder that is made from grinding the dried pods of mild varieties of the pepper plant known as (Capsicum annuum L.) The pepper plants used to make this spice range from the sweet Bell pepper to the milder chili peppers. The Paprika peppers originally grown were hot. Over time, they have evolved to the milder varieties.
Ray ;) :P
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Sooooo, I will stand by my comparison that Kashmiri Mirch could, in certain circumstances, be substituted with Hot Paprika!
I do not for one second dispute that it could; but whether it should is another matter entirely ! Tell you what : you put a teaspoon of Hot Paprika in a used 35mm film canister and post it to me; I'll put a teaspoon of Kashmiri Mirch in similar and post it to you; we then both post our comments on how similar or how different they appeared using the ISO wet finger test ISO 8857A-1. OK ?!
** Phil.
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It MUST be Hungarian Sweet paprika, and not the Spanish stuff that we get in supermarkets, Read it on the web somewhere
HS
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It MUST be Hungarian Sweet paprika, and not the Spanish stuff that we get in supermarkets, Read it on the web somewhere
What must, Hotstuff ?
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It MUST be kashmiri mirch , and not the Spanish stuff that we get in supermarkets, Read it on the web somewhere
What must, Hotstuff ?
Used as a sub for kashmiri mirch, Hungarian Sweet paprika with a touch of chilli powder added to the mix, like i said i only read this online somewhere, so don't know how true it is
HS
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[...] it mentions that most spices benefit from "blooming" (aka toasting), the act of cooking spices for a brief amount of time (one to 2 minutes most) in oil or butter before adding the liquid to a recipe. This serves to intensify the flavours of the spices and bring out their essential oils.
Caution: Don't do this with paprika - it tends to take on a bitter, burnt flavour.
So, since Phil's recipe calls for "blooming" (which he calls "bhooning"), you'd better not substitute paprika (hot or otherwise).
M'lud, the defense rests. Could the Clerk of the Court please show Exhibit A (http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/342241#2017647) to the Jury ?
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Used as a sub for kashmiri mirch, Hungarian Sweet paprika with a touch of chilli powder added to the mix, like i said i only read this online somewhere, so don't know how true it is
"A touch of chilli pepper" isn't going to get anywhere near the heat that I experienced when I did Ray's (or was it Axe's) wet finger test yesterday : that Kashmiri Mirch is seriously hot !
** Phil.
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Also, how thin is the KD1 base?
OK, test complete. I have just opened, heated and consumed 1 tin of Baxter's Finest Lobster Bisque ("Now with reduced salt" : no, it doesn't say that on the tin, but my taste-buds know !) and I can say with reasonably certainty that KD1/PC is about 4/5 as viscous/thick/whatever as the Bisque. I had expected the latter to get less viscous as it was heated, but this did not seem to occur. The Bisque is more homogeneous ("smoother") than my base, but that is probably more a reflection on my desire not to burn out herself's Bosch stick blender than any intentional difference !
** Phil.
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That's given me a measure Phil, thank you. I really need to get back to the IG and have another look.
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My recollection of the Taz base, FWIW, is that it was noticeably thinner, but that may have been after I "food milled" it through a large sieve.
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Used as a sub for kashmiri mirch, Hungarian Sweet paprika with a touch of chilli powder added to the mix, like i said i only read this online somewhere, so don't know how true it is
"A touch of chilli pepper" isn't going to get anywhere near the heat that I experienced when I did Ray's (or was it Axe's) wet finger test yesterday : that Kashmiri Mirch is seriously hot !
** Phil.
So now I'm getting confused here according to your recipe
?1 teaspoon MDH Kashmiri Mirch (for colour)
?1 teaspoon MDH Degghi Mirch (for heat)
the degghi is for heat ::)
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Hi
Kashmiri Mirch can be used for heat too: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5672.msg56193#msg56193 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5672.msg56193#msg56193)
However, its packet description (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Indian-Food-MDH-Kashmiri-Mirch.html (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Indian-Food-MDH-Kashmiri-Mirch.html)) is:
Exotic Kashmiri Chilli Powder (Mirch) is a special blend of medium quality Red Pepper that is used for Tandoori (Clay oven) preparations. When used in curry it imparts bright red colour making food more appealing and palatable. It is added to marinade for marinating and to frying onions along with chopped tomatoes while preparing curries.
Cheers
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So now I'm getting confused here according to your recipe
?1 teaspoon MDH Kashmiri Mirch (for colour)
?1 teaspoon MDH Degghi Mirch (for heat)
the degghi is for heat ::)
Oh, I agree. I added it for colour; but when I did the wet-finger test, I also found it to be seriously hot !
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So now I'm getting confused here according to your recipe
?1 teaspoon MDH Kashmiri Mirch (for colour)
?1 teaspoon MDH Degghi Mirch (for heat)
the degghi is for heat ::)
Oh, I agree. I added it for colour; but when I did the wet-finger test, I also found it to be seriously hot !
So would you still add both spices to a recipe? I don't see the point if one spice will do the job of 2 :-\
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So would you still add both spices to a recipe? I don't see the point if one spice will do the job of 2 :-\
Next time, yes, because it worked and was so good. At some point in the future, probably not : double up on each in turn and compare.
** Phil.
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phil, good post this one. i will try this recipe soon. kd1 base is so good for madras. i like your thinking.
I made a stunning madras with kd1 base recently. i chopped 3 whole raw chicken breasts up into chunks, and added that to the final madras during cooking. i then removed half of the chicken chunks for the next day. the result was a really moorish madras sauce with a near perfect subtle chicken taste. The chicken released a nice savoury flavour to the madras sauce. complimenting the lemon juice and fresh coriander . The next day it tasted even better, with a very bir style savoury taste.
phil, try this with your madras recipe, i have a feeling you wont be disapointed !
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phil, try this with your madras recipe, i have a feeling you wont be disappointed !
Good idea, Derek : I shall definitely give this a try.
** Phil.