Being in Scotland this would be too far away ...Could ye nae come doon for Burns' night, and bide a wee while the noo ... ?!
Hi allHi Chris
I know we spoke about this before Christmas but the restaurant wasn't ready. Well it is now and I've convinced Az this is something he should be offering on Sundays. He's asked me to arrange groups and an itinerary of what to do Please send me a PM or post on this thread to say if you want to come and which date is preferable and I'll do my best to make it happen.
Cheers
Chris
Price sounds good.
Hi
Just to avoid any confusion (at least on my perception of the suggested offer).
I thought the suggestion of money approx sixty pounds was on a per-person basis.
Taking into account Az (who I have had the pleasure to meet before through Chris W G) is going to give up a fair chunk of a productive chef's day, to teach / demonstrate to a bunch of curry-heads and cover that much content - at the same time, most likely bombarding him with questions at a very unreasonable rate - this sounds a more than fair price to me.
I really hope this goes ahead - I cannot wait :)
Cheers
Just found a place in Manchester where I have eaten often, that is doing lessons. They're charging GBP55.00 for 2.5 hrs. So, GBP60.00 sounds quite reasonable.
Ray :)
Being in Scotland this would be too far away but I think it's a cracking idea and
You going to give it a go, Ray?
Price sounds good.
GBP60 for six, so GBP10 each sounds good.
I hope it's not GBP60 each. I fear it's another example of lack of attention to detail in the 'deal outline' a bit like in too many recipes.
All Chris said was:
"Price wise, I don't know what to suggest. Does ?60 including lunch and coffee sound right?"
is that an ounce of common sense..or 10 heaped tablespoons... :)No silly, a chef's spoon :-X
Maybe he made the mistake of assuming the people who would read his post would have an ounce of common sense? ::)
Hi All
Thanks for so many responses. To answer one question, the food is excellent. This is our number 1 takeaway and now restaurant. As a massive curryhead I have tried everywhere in a 5 mile radius (excluding Farnham for some reason) and this place has been our favourite for a couple of years - well before I knew Az.
Curryhell
Natterjak
JB
Ramirez
Solar
976Bar
.
I'm really looking forward to this.Chriswg I don't know how you've befriended this guy and persuaded him to let us in his kitchen but well done.I have so many questions I think we're going to be there all day!! His menu looks very nice.I noticed he does chicken tawa,my local does this(spices) hopefully he'll answer a few questions about it.If he would allow us to bring cameras that would be nice.The itinerary looks good,especially the tikka,tandoori naan etc section for obvious reasons!!I'm still pestering my local for some lessons,I was in there last night and I think they may be coming round to the idea so watch this space!! By the way the wife thinks I'm bonkers(or obsessed) having more lessons...tandoori oven,new spice grinder,new curry pan from Julian(which is very good by the way) oh and another book called Prashaad-cooking with Indian Masters...like I needed another curry book!!So you are trying to talk Spice into giving you some lessons eh jb. Keep me posted on how this develops. I hope to get in there soon for an NIS and one to take away for comparison purposes ;D. Looking forward to Sunday fortnight myself and i hope to get to Abdul's sometime soon.
I'm really looking forward to this.Chriswg I don't know how you've befriended this guy and persuaded him to let us in his kitchen but well done.I have so many questions I think we're going to be there all day!! His menu looks very nice.I noticed he does chicken tawa,my local does this(spices) hopefully he'll answer a few questions about it.If he would allow us to bring cameras that would be nice.The itinerary looks good,especially the tikka,tandoori naan etc section for obvious reasons!!I'm still pestering my local for some lessons,I was in there last night and I think they may be coming round to the idea so watch this space!! By the way the wife thinks I'm bonkers(or obsessed) having more lessons...tandoori oven,new spice grinder,new curry pan from Julian(which is very good by the way) oh and another book called Prashaad-cooking with Indian Masters...like I needed another curry book!!So you are trying to talk Spice into giving you some lessons eh jb. Keep me posted on how this develops. I hope to get in there soon for an NIS and one to take away for comparison purposes ;D. Looking forward to Sunday fortnight myself and i hope to get to Abdul's sometime soon.
If you get into Spices kichen that would be fantastic. I should start pushing too. I'm off for a fortnight in a couple of weeks so maybe i'll sow the seeds myself as this would be ideal ;). Re. Preem, you can never have to many lessons or visit enough kitchens in our search for the holy grail ;D. 2012 seems to be getting off to a very good start on the curry front. Long may it continue 8) 8)
Yep trying my hardest to get into Spices,I'll keep nagging don't worry.Actually I've just got an email back from the Manager at the Preem in East Tilbury.Apparantly they're doing lessons again,I'll take a trip down and have a chat I think.
As I won't be taking part in the first run of this, my input is probably not welcome, but from a purely personal perspective I would have thought that focussing on one style of BIR cuisine would probably be more beneficial than trying to focus on many, and then being able to remember at most a few. In other words, if it is to be a Tandoori day, then focus on tandoori dishes, naan & raita; if it is to be a curry day, then focus on curries, rice and chapatti/paratha; but don't try to do both on the same day or there may be too little time for each and too much to take in.I am quite happy with the suggested programme, initially focusing on key things. Hopefully, if this proves beneficial to all, including Az, the gatherings may start to focus on specific areas of the menu. I don't think much will be missed. As there are six of us, whatever one misses, i am sure another will pick up on ;D
This is too far for me.
It's a round trip of 280 miles
But what would be brilliant is a simple madras demo
The more spiced recipes hide the subtle flavour that seems so hard to achieve
It needs to be made with a small version base
I know this is not a practical proposition, but seeing a full sized base would solve a lot of problems too
So if it turns out that all small bases are sub standard, then at least you have the option to make and freeze a big one
I'm really sorry I can't go
So far it looks like we have a group of 6 for the 29th January:
Curryhell
Natterjak
JB
Ramirez
Solar
976Bar
George, are you paying for it? No. I am, willingly, as are the other participants. Does the forum stand to maybe benefit from it? Yes. I'd just leave it at that eh? Or shall all participants agree not share what we get from the day because we've footed the bill for it? In my opinion, and most likely in the opinion of all the others it doesn't work like that. So quit winging and enjoy and benefit from whatever comes from our trip.So far it looks like we have a group of 6 for the 29th January:
Curryhell
Natterjak
JB
Ramirez
Solar
976Bar
What about you? Assuming you'll be there, that makes seven.
7 @ GBP60 = GBP420
The tuition should be about 3.5 hours, by my reckoning.
So that's GBP120 an hour for the chef, less a bit for the food.
Not bad work, if you can find it, hence my initial surprise.
If any of my figures are far out, please tell me where.
So quit winging and the comments and enjoy and benefit from whatever comes from our trip (sic)
Just spoke to Az and the 29th is fine. His only stipulation was an 11am start as he usually works until 3am on Saturday night :)
Everyone book the date in your diaries and start thinking about what questions you need answering :)
I'm hoping we can cover everything in the 4 hours. I'm sure no one will complain if we go a bit over time.
Hi Chris,
Just a suggestion here....
I think I would like more time spent on cooking more varieties of main dishes than learning how to prepare Garlic & Ginger paste which is pretty much standard, and Onion Bhajis/naan breads etc which are pretty much anything everyone can do quite easily... especially as most of us don't have a tandoor to prepare such breads in anyway...
I'm not speaking for everyone here and if everyone else would like more of the G&G puree/onion bhaji/naan bread mixes then leave as is...
Just a suggestion.... :)
I'm quite happy to go with the majority here. However, i do believe that probably the best person to decide on the most appropriate content would be Az himself. I think the itinery provided by Chris is logical and captures all the necessary preparation, which we all know is key. It also included cooking of mains. I know we'd all love to have a crash course in at least 10 mains and 6 sides but the time scale does not allow. Plus all the questions that are going to be asked. Whatever the programme i'm sure we'll have a good day and hopefully be better cooks for it. Probably that same evening we'll have another freight load of questions as a result of the day :o ;DHi Chris,
Just a suggestion here....
I think I would like more time spent on cooking more varieties of main dishes than learning how to prepare Garlic & Ginger paste which is pretty much standard, and Onion Bhajis/naan breads etc which are pretty much anything everyone can do quite easily... especially as most of us don't have a tandoor to prepare such breads in anyway...
I'm not speaking for everyone here and if everyone else would like more of the G&G puree/onion bhaji/naan bread mixes then leave as is...
Just a suggestion.... :)
I think I would tend to agree with Bob. It seems the best use of our time with Az would be to try and understand the methods and techniques of the base sauce, final curries and side dishes, as this is surely where the art lies. I'd be especially keen to see the Roshney chicken about which Chris raves, being prepared.
Also, if starting at 11am and continuing for 3.5 hrs perhaps we should consider breaking for lunch then returning to the kitchen, not sure my stomach will last until gone 2pm to eat lunch. Just suggestions, happy to hear the thoughts of the other participants.
Hi Chris,
Just a suggestion here....
I think I would like more time spent on cooking more varieties of main dishes than learning how to prepare Garlic & Ginger paste which is pretty much standard, and Onion Bhajis/naan breads etc which are pretty much anything everyone can do quite easily... especially as most of us don't have a tandoor to prepare such breads in anyway...
I'm not speaking for everyone here and if everyone else would like more of the G&G puree/onion bhaji/naan bread mixes then leave as is...
Just a suggestion.... :)
I think I would tend to agree with Bob. It seems the best use of our time with Az would be to try and understand the methods and techniques of the base sauce, final curries and side dishes, as this is surely where the art lies. I'd be especially keen to see the Roshney chicken about which Chris raves, being prepared.
Also, if starting at 11am and continuing for 3.5 hrs perhaps we should consider breaking for lunch then returning to the kitchen, not sure my stomach will last until gone 2pm to eat lunch. Just suggestions, happy to hear the thoughts of the other participants.
Sorry I missed a few posts, haven't been able to log on for a few days. I'm sure we can drop the G/G paste, I just thought it might be interesting to actually prepare all the components first hand so there can be no questions about missing secret ingredients.
Regarding measurements, I think it will be more about ratios than exact numbers for things like spice mix / garam massala. With the dishes it's harder as everything is done by eye. I'm sure he'll be able to give some guidance on what the amounts are but it's probably better if you try to remember what the amounts looked like on the spoon.
I'll be there to chat and have some lunch and a beer with you guys but I won't actively take part. I'm lucky to have been able to cook there before and 6 in the kitchen is a good amount. I'm looking forward to watching you guys cook though and I'm happy to provide an unbiased assessment of your dishes :)
I think you're probably right, especially given the apparent interest in ladies handbags by one of the members who've said they'll turn up. It may or may not be fetish-related but you can never be too sure. I now think Razor was probably right when he expressed reservations about inviting strangers round to his home for dinner parties.
what?But it's ok for you to post this off topic rubbish in this thread though? ??? ::)
The only person left posting it is you, given I always intended to remove my short term, wholly relevant, comments. I suggest you do the same. Also, are you suggesting that Razor is talking rubbish or that personal safety when getting together with strangers, is of no concern?
But it's ok for you to post this off topic rubbish in this thread though? ??? ::)
The only person left posting it is you, given I always intended to remove my short term, wholly relevant, comments. I suggest you do the same. Also, are you suggesting that Razor is talking rubbish or that personal safety when getting together with strangers, is of no concern?
The only person left posting it is you, given I always intended to remove my short term, wholly relevant, comments. I suggest you do the same. Also, are you suggesting that Razor is talking rubbish or that personal safety when getting together with strangers, is of no concern?
So you're happy to abuse your moderator powers (which you promised to only use for the purpose of deleting spam) to remove your own inflammatory postings which you believe you have a right to make regardless of their relevance to the thread? This behaviour is called trolling George.
Also, are you suggesting that Razor is talking rubbish or that personal safety when getting together with strangers, is of no concern?
Getting slightly back to your excellent curry cooking day. Do take pictures and give lots of feedback. Too far for me as I'm in Cumbria, but your reports will no doubt be very informative. Shame it was delayed by a week :'( But as they say, better late than not at all, ;D
Bring your cameras along. I'm sure we can get a good video of a Madras or something.
It's the opening party at Zaal tonight and I got an invite.
Freeeeee Cuuuuuuurrrrryyyyyy!!!
not sure life gets a lot better than that :)
Hopefully this is still ok for this Sunday,having a few pc problems I'm not sure if my PM to Chriswg was sent correctly
Hopefully this is still ok for this Sunday,having a few pc problems I'm not sure if my PM to Chriswg was sent correctly
Hi jb
I got your 'group' reply pm, so it would appear that it sent with no problems. Have not heard a reply from ChrisWG though. He did say he found it difficult to check the forum at work, so I guess if we have not heard anything reasonably soon we should try his gmail address.
Thanks
We are all ready to rumble tomorrow at 11am. I've just been having a chat with Az to talk about everything we are going to try and cover.It sure is. It will be great to finally meet others with such a passion for curry and put faces to names :)
He is going to put some whole spices in to roast this evening so we can grind our own garam massala and make up the mix powder. We'll also be marinading and tandoor cooking the chicken tikka, making base sauce, making massala paste, then making whatever dishes we want for our lunch - including Saag Bhaji :) He also suggested we precook some potato first thing so it is ready in time to make bombay aloo or add it into a vindaloo!
It's going to be a fab day, I'm looking forward to meeting everyone that didn't come to the BBQ!
We are all ready to rumble tomorrow at 11am. I've just been having a chat with Az to talk about everything we are going to try and cover.
He is going to put some whole spices in to roast this evening so we can grind our own garam massala and make up the mix powder. We'll also be marinading and tandoor cooking the chicken tikka, making base sauce, making massala paste, then making whatever dishes we want for our lunch - including Saag Bhaji :) He also suggested we precook some potato first thing so it is ready in time to make bombay aloo or add it into a vindaloo!
It's going to be a fab day, I'm looking forward to meeting everyone that didn't come to the BBQ!
A very big thankyou for organizing this,a landmark event for the forum I think.Time to sort out the Satnav while I demolish the remains of last night's North Indian Special!!I'm going green with envy jb >:(. NIS remains for lunch :P. Maybe i'll just make it for tea instead ;)
here's hoping this will dispel annoying diversions which seem to continually crop up and knock us off course of producing what we love at home.
What? Like a list of unproven myths, for example?
As for the secret ingredient - well, I have to say I would never have guessed it. Thanks to Az for entrusting us to keep this amazing trick secret.
Big big thanks to Chriswg for organising today (with all the date changes, etc. I'm sure at times he must've felt like he was trying to herd cats ;D ). Very enjoyable and informative day, even though there was frequently "information overload" occurring :)And entrust it we will just as Az said we should ;D ;D ;D ;)
As for the secret ingredient - well, I have to say I would never have guessed it. Thanks to Az for entrusting us to keep this amazing trick secret.
Big big thanks to Chriswg for organising today (with all the date changes, etc. I'm sure at times he must've felt like he was trying to herd cats ;D ). Very enjoyable and informative day, even though there was frequently "information overload" occurring :)QuoteAs for the secret ingredient - well, I have to say I would never have guessed it. Thanks to Az for entrusting us to keep this amazing trick secret.[/color]
Az does cook very, very fast and very, very hot - and yes - I did rather singe my Vindaloo :(
As for the secret ingredient - well, I have to say I would never have guessed it. Thanks to Az for entrusting us to keep this amazing trick secret.
Not the statement we've all been waiting to hear :(
Well done gents, glad you all enjoyed it!! :)You can't beat hands on tuition from an expert Wayne, that's for sure. And in answer to your question what we've all been doing at home is virtually the same as in the kitchen today. One big difference is obviously the huge burner heat output, as Russ found out to his disgust>:(. But don't despair. When i mentioned the fact that i cook on electric, his reply was simply, no worries it'll take a bit longer but you'll get exactly the same result :D :D. And you do have to "singe" the spices. We were all choking when i was cooking my phall and even more so once Russ got the pan in his hands ??? ???. Loads more will be revealed as we all have time to reflect on information overload. Thankfully we can start to put it all together once Jb has chance to review his notes and Russ has reviewed his video footage. I was too busy chopping onions (safely as taught by As), dipping into containers of spice and some pastes and grinding "chef's special garam masala", which jb noted down the recipe. I can hear it now - "oh no, not chef's special garam masala" again :(
Has anybody done anything notably different in preparing the base and converting it into a curry dish?
Was the finished results noticeably different to previous homemade efforts??
Chuffed for you all, hopefully something similar will crop up up t' north, thats if you all don't convert us to BIR standard chefs after todays experience first ;D ;D
Wayne
As for the secret ingredient - well, I have to say I would never have guessed it. Thanks to Az for entrusting us to keep this amazing trick secret.
Not the statement we've all been waiting to hear :(
Legs well and truly pulled ;D (sorry guys, just couldn't resist!)
CH, I see the whole spices came into play then ;) I also made my own garam masala yesterday, powerful stuff :othey most certainly did emin-j and not just in the garam but in the base too as was suspected, but with a little twist ;D ;D. They were boilded hard in water for some time, strained and the liquor then added to the base. Clever way of doing it but as Az said, you can add powder but that'll darken the gravy or add them whole but then the punters wouldn't be too happy chomping on them ;D
You guys deserve a medal for pulling off what sounds like a really informative day.
CH, I see the whole spices came into play then ;) I also made my own garam masala yesterday, powerful stuff :onot just in the garam but in the base too as was suspected, but with a little twist ;D ;D. They were boilded hard in water for some time, strained and the liquor then added to the base. Clever way of doing it
Nothing special or exotic in terms of ingredients, spice mix or base sauce. The big revelation to me was the extent to which Az singes his spices,Not as much as Russ did ;D. Oops, that was a bit below the belt - sorry ;)
The roshney chicken and CH's phall were quite stunning though. I didn't personally love Az's tikka, I'll stick with Blade's mix. The vindaloo was, umm.. smokey! ;)YOUR roshney chicken was lovely and tasty and i will definitely be making it. Chriswg's was more up my street in terms of heat but had the same lovely taste. As for my phall, it was virtually the same as that which i get from my local, tasty and hot hot and was oh so simple to make. "it's all in the singeing" as i learnt today. And i only used one chef's spoon ( controversial i know but when in the kitchen ;D) of chilli powder, in fact only 3/4 and not heaped either :o :o
Well done guy's, I really mean that.
I can't wait for JB to get his notes onto the forum. Really interested in the spice singeing. I wonder if one of you guy's could do a video, just of the singeing, to show us just how far you can actually go before all is ruined, that is unless you already have one from the lesson?
Well done all, especially Chris who as done himself proud in getting this off the ground, just like he did with the cr0 recipe group tests.
Ray (in my best TOWIE accent; WELL JEL) ;D
I'm glad everyone had so much fun and learned so much. Az was very nervous and worried as this was his first time teaching people - especially when he saw Curryhells knife skills :)trip advisor reviews are becoming notorious for fake reviews, great work getting that visit together chriswg
I was really impressed with the pre-cooked lamb (well mutton actually) - I hope we got the recipe for that. I usually avoid lamb dishes because they can be chewy and fatty but this was moist and tender.
I also really enjoyed the saag bhaji which I've never tried before. I didn't see it being cooked but I gather it was really simple.
If possible, they'd really appreciate a good review on tripadvisor. The last 2 people wrote terrible reviews which almost certainly means they are local competitors. Here is the link: http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g503830-d2446226-Reviews-Zaal-Fleet_Hampshire_England.html (http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g503830-d2446226-Reviews-Zaal-Fleet_Hampshire_England.html)
I'm glad everyone had so much fun and learned so much. Az was very nervous and worried as this was his first time teaching people - especially when he saw Curryhells knife skills :)That we did Chris - a terrific experience mate. 8) Thanks for putting it all together ;). As for our teacher's nevousness, it didn't show. He's a natural and really likeable guy :D
I was really impressed with the pre-cooked lamb (well mutton actually) - I hope we got the recipe for that. I usually avoid lamb dishes because they can be chewy and fatty but this was moist and tender.Melt in the mouth springs to mind and will be having a go at this once Jb finds time to write everything up, a mammouth task :o. Russ has got his work cut out as well with all the video footage he took.
I also really enjoyed the saag bhaji which I've never tried before. I didn't see it being cooked but I gather it was really simple.
I've had some trouble with the privacy settings on that video - can someone just confirm they can view the video in the above post ok?
This is all beyond brilliant. :) Thanks for posting this video up so quickly, Natterjak.Az and his staff were absolutely bloody fantastic. As you have seen nothing was too much trouble in spite of the fact the other chefs were having to work round us lot whilst trying to get all the prep done for the coming evening service. The poor guy was bomarded with questions from the moment we arrived. And he made sure we all got in on the action and he held nothing back. "It's not ******g rocket science" were his words on more than one occasion ;D
How great were Az and the other guys, measuring stuff out for you when you asked and offering to time the base while explaining that they usually do it by eye? I take it it's Az in the lilac shirt. What a good teacher he seems to be, from this short clip alone. I particularly like the way he encouraged you all to take part. I had to smile at the bombardment of questions you were all lobbing at him. I'd have been exactly the same. ;D It's great to see that the other chefs were chipping in with answers too.
It's so good of you guys to be sharing this with us on the forum. I'm really looking forward to the rest of the footage and notes, whenever you manage to post them.
Many thanks, guys. :)
I also noticed that he directed you to add a heaped chef spoon of methi leaves but JB read back a desertspoonful. Still, it's all an inexact science and I bet when they make larger quantities the proportions are different. It was a struggle for Az to transfer his normal approach of "grab as much as looks right" into spoon measures for us so it's to be expected that there will be discrepencies.I did pick up on that one Chris. I think you summed it up "it's all an inexact science " ;). All about eye, feel and practice which i'm sure we're gonna be doing for many years to come ;D
Hi
I have a lot of video footage from the day such as forum members cooking various dishes under direction of Az including Bhuna, Roshney, Phal and Az cooking Saag Bhaji for example.
Planning to make a start on trying to get this tidied up and may be to start uploading tonight. Would these be best posted in this thread or would a separate 'Cooking Lessons with Az - Video Clips & Notes' thread be better?
Perhaps JB would care to post his notes in there too - maybe more helpful to the forum members if they are together?
What do we think?
Thanks
Does anyone know whether this "Coconut milk powder" is suitable for use as the coconut powder in Az's Masala sauce?
http://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/coconut-milk-powder--maggi-2229-p.asp (http://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/coconut-milk-powder--maggi-2229-p.asp)
I would like to congratulate everyone who had the opportunity to go and experience the real thing yesterday and sharing it with the form along with videos. I am waiting for JBs report and I hope his previous experience was a help.
Abdul
Does anyone know whether this "Coconut milk powder" is suitable for use as the coconut powder in Az's Masala sauce?
http://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/coconut-milk-powder--maggi-2229-p.asp (http://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/coconut-milk-powder--maggi-2229-p.asp)
I use it nearly every time coconut is called for, the only stuff that doesn't work is the desiccated stuff
Regards
ELW
By the way, on the subject of cooking lessons with Az, I would be up for an "advanced course" (if you want to call it that) but essentially a return trip to focus just on the final dishes and some veg dishes and maybe naans to cement what we learned this time, ask further questions arising from our own efforts at home and hopefully learn some of the finer points.
For me the most useful part of the lesson yesterday was the cooking of the final curries but it was also the point where I was most frazzled after 3 hrs or so and of course it all takes place so quick it's hard to take it in. With multiple dishes being cooked simultaneously it was hard to stay across the various dishes and understand their differences. What would be an excellent would be to arrive after the prep is done so we have base sauce, pre cooked meat, masala sauce, etc all available and have more of a demo format, where Az cooks a dish then we attempt it ourselves. We can then eat as we go, or pack them into takeaway cartons to take home. I appreciate this would cost more as we would get through more ingredients in a session.
Well I'm just talking out loud anyway, would be interesting to see what anyone else thinks. And maybe after yesterday Az wouldn't want us back ;)
By the way, on the subject of cooking lessons with Az, I would be up for an "advanced course" (if you want to call it that) but essentially a return trip to focus just on the final dishes and some veg dishes and maybe naans to cement what we learned this time, ask further questions arising from our own efforts at home and hopefully learn some of the finer points.
For me the most useful part of the lesson yesterday was the cooking of the final curries but it was also the point where I was most frazzled after 3 hrs or so and of course it all takes place so quick it's hard to take it in. With multiple dishes being cooked simultaneously it was hard to stay across the various dishes and understand their differences. What would be an excellent would be to arrive after the prep is done so we have base sauce, pre cooked meat, masala sauce, etc all available and have more of a demo format, where Az cooks a dish then we attempt it ourselves. We can then eat as we go, or pack them into takeaway cartons to take home. I appreciate this would cost more as we would get through more ingredients in a session.
Well I'm just talking out loud anyway, would be interesting to see what anyone else thinks. And maybe after yesterday Az wouldn't want us back ;)
I agree by the end of the day it was hard to stay focused on everything that was going on.I'm hoping Az would be up for another lesson.I know he was a bit nervous but he did a great job and I think he enjoyed having us.Natterjack's idea seems a good one to me,I too would like a bit more practice cooking the final dishes.Maybee also making naan breads and onion bhajis as well.
Great stuff. Be good if he was up for a second group later in the year. With enough notice I am sure some of us northeners would make a trip down!
Regards
Barry
Well to be fair Az was calling most of the ingredients "thingy" but we knew what he meant ;D
Hi
Well, had a bit of a learning experience here... first time using Premier Elements video editing software bought 6 months ago (been sitting on shelf since), first time uploading to You Tube (third attempt now), first time in a proper restaurant kitchen....
Anyway, without further delay here is CurryHell cooking his 'Chicken Phall' - I hope you enjoy the footage. There is much more to come over the next few days.
You can see all the ingredients used in the video apart from the jar of stuff. The stuff is Mr. Naga (I think that's what its called) as popularised on the forum by ChewyTikka.
Indian / Asian - Restaurant Chicken Phall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIrSuXNxuro#ws)
HiRuss, you're good with that camera. Too bloody good in fact ;D. It certainly is Mr Naga pickle. And i owe you one for this mate!!! I've just made a mental note for later ;). Watching this I realise how really lucky we guys were to be given the opportunity we experienced yesterday :). You can't get any better than having a BIR chef at hand teaching you how to do it properly. You're a class act Az and a fab teacher ;) ;). Words really do fail me at this point after 25+ years of searching. What i cooked with Az's guidance was as as good as any phall i've eaten. My efforts at home pale almost into insignificance after learning yesterday how it should be done. Simple but it takes a master to show you!!! All down to Az giving us the opportunity. Hope that answers a few questions ::)
Well, had a bit of a learning experience here... first time using Premier Elements video editing software bought 6 months ago (been sitting on shelf since), first time uploading to You Tube (third attempt now), first time in a proper restaurant kitchen....
Anyway, without further delay here is CurryHell cooking his 'Chicken Phall' - I hope you enjoy the footage. There is much more to come over the next few days.
You can see all the ingredients used in the video apart from the jar of stuff. The stuff is Mr. Naga (I think that's what its called) as popularised on the forum by ChewyTikka.
Great work though. I wish I could have seen CH's knife skills :o
Ray :)
HiWhat#s that going in at 2:17?
Well, had a bit of a learning experience here
@ chriswg "the Vindaloo had subtle smokey undertones which added interest" - classic Chris. I must remember this for when i burn the spices ( :( sorry Russ, but we all learnt something from it :D. Besides Az said they weren't burn, just cooked for longer than he would cook them ;D).
HiWhat#s that going in at 2:17?
Well, had a bit of a learning experience here
Is it water?
That was my comment in fact, not chris's ;)Thanks NJ, corrected :D
Words really do fail me at this point after 25+ years of searching. What i cooked with Az's guidance was as as good as any phall i've eaten. My efforts at home pale almost into insignificance after learning yesterday how it should be done. Simple but it takes a master to show you!!! All down to Az giving us the opportunity. Hope that answers a few questions
Does anyone know where AZ learned his craft from?
Or was he self taught?
Well done you guy's, and thanks for sharing with the rest of us
Les
What I took from yesterday was that the base sauce, although slightly different in recipe wasn't fundamentally different from any I've seen or cooked before. It's just a watery mild curry tasting sauce. The mix powder, maybe again slightly different proportions but not really any significant difference to anything I've been using or which I've seen posted here.Curry2go chef Julian talks about "layers" of flavour which is a good way to describe how a dish is put together. As Nj says the base and mix powder we used at Zaals, whilst being Az's version, arent that different from many already posted. Each one being a layer and having a subtle difference but when combined "properly" they give you that restaurant result which is different from one BIR to the next but similar at the same time.
No... I'm sure that none of these "ingredients" differences can account for the difference in the end result that we all seemed to feel we had achieved cooking under Az's guidance. The only significant difference to which I could ascribe the title "the secret" is in the cooking technique itself.And there is the bottom line guys ::). I went to a BIR last night and had their Bollywood blast. A hot chicken curry cooked with naga chillies, so they say ::). Sound familiar?? It came up looking a shade thinner in texture but the same colour to the one i cooked at Zaal's. The taste was my chicken phall revisited :o. When i tasted it I smiled and thought to myself this isn't any better than what i made on Sunday, the flavour being virtually identical. Probably something to do with the naga pickle that Az added.
Hard and fast frying in the early stages and crucially burning the spices and tomato pur
Again whilst chatting over a cigarette Az said that when he was a kitchen porter, the pot washer as we know it, the chefs didn't tell you anything. They wouldn't in case you eventually did them out of a job. He had to watch and learn and then practice. Just goes to prove there's a lot to be said for the "monkey see, monkey do" approach ;DDoes anyone know where AZ learned his craft from?
Or was he self taught?
Well done you guy's, and thanks for sharing with the rest of us
Les
Hi Les
Az told us that since leaving school, he has been working in Indian restaurants and TA's. Apparently he started as a plate washer and worked his way up learning on the job by watching the other chefs and now owns several restaurants and a supply business that supplies other Indian restaurants.
CHeers
I've just been watching my footage of Az and Curryhell making the sag bhaji.Haven't eaten this for a long time but to me it had a lovely flavour,as good as any I can remember getting from a BIR.The thing is it contained no spice mix,no gravy just spinach,salt,turmeric,onions and garlic.When Az was doing his bit he cooked at a ferocious pace constantly stirring and pushing the pan backwards and forwards so to me it's got to be in the technique.Az just seems to know how,when etc to add spices to get that special flavour.Ah, come on Jb, share ??? ??? ;D
that be vege ghee rather than butter ghee Jb
I've just been watching my footage of Az and Curryhell making the sag bhaji.Haven't eaten this for a long time but to me it had a lovely flavour,as good as any I can remember getting from a BIR.The thing is it contained no spice mix,no gravy just spinach,salt,turmeric,onions and garlic.When Az was doing his bit he cooked at a ferocious pace constantly stirring and pushing the pan backwards and forwards so to me it's got to be in the technique.Az just seems to know how,when etc to add spices to get that special flavour.Ah, come on Jb, share ??? ??? ;D
...snip
I think someone video'd my Roshney didn't they? Would be good to watch back when you get round to uploading them all.
Tell me CH, after flaming your Phal in the restaurant, did you notice a smoky difference between that and your previous efforts cooked at home?Hi DP. I've just looked again at the vid a couple of times. It does give the impression of the pan catching when in fact this was happening around the edges and not in the pan itself. It certainly was nowhere near the flaming that occured when i cooked up the spices to go into the gravy. Not sure whether this was captured by Russ?That did flame but nothing like Chriswg's garlic tarka ;D ;D as Solarsplace voiced appropriately ;). My efforts at home have to a certain extent provided a "smokey" or "singed" flavour, but not to the extent as Sunday's dish. Then again i've never singed as much at home as i did at Zaal's ;D
Cheers, Frank.
Hi Les
Az told us that since leaving school, he has been working in Indian restaurants and TA's. Apparently he started as a plate washer and worked his way up learning on the job by watching the other chefs and now owns several restaurants and a supply business that supplies other Indian restaurants.
CHeers
I think if you are cooking at home you just need to be brave with how how you let the oil get before adding in the spices. Az usually leaves the veg ghee to heat up for at least 30 seconds on maximum heat before starting cooking. At home, you might need to wait 2 or more minutes depending on your hob. The magic seems to happen in the first minute of frying, singing and quenching so the fact he has industrial burners won't make much of a difference apart from how long it takes for the pan to get up to frying temperature.
For the record, after cooking Roshney's in Zaal and Chutneys a few times I can now honestly claim to be able to reproduce a 100% clone at home (including 2 ft flames for the tarka). I think you'd struggle a little with an electric hob as you wouldn't be able to get the flames started without a gas torch. I think when Az cooked the non-vindaloo strength one there was no flambee and it still tasted good - just not as exciting :)
...snip
I think someone video'd my Roshney didn't they? Would be good to watch back when you get round to uploading them all.
Hi Chris
I have your monster flamb
Hi
I (think) have your standard Roshney & JB's Bhuna on video. Unfortunately missed ChrisWG's extra hot Roshney although maybe JB has that? - Will endeavour to upload over the next day or so.
Thanks
Hi jb, that was Khanums vegetable ghee (yellow tub)in the masala sauce video.. veg ghee seems to be sold in similiar yellow tubs(i see khyber veg tubs here all in the t/a's here)..Butter ghee seems to be in metal tins with the cow on it regardless of brans (ktc heera)Hi
I (think) have your standard Roshney & JB's Bhuna on video. Unfortunately missed ChrisWG's extra hot Roshney although maybe JB has that? - Will endeavour to upload over the next day or so.
Thanks
Hi Guys,I have all of Chriswg's Roshney(apart from the huge flame I wasn't expecting that to be honest!!) I'll have a look at what else I have(I remember the sag bhaji and someone kindly videoed me doing my bhuna).
So it was veg ghee then,I take it Az uses butter ghee for something then?? Maybe brushing naan breads??? Was it veg ghee that went into the massla paste and gravy then??? To be honest my head was spinning after concentrating trying to focus on the note taking,I wanted everything to be spot on.
Hi Guys,I have all of Chriswg's Roshney(apart from the huge flame I wasn't expecting that to be honest!!) I'll have a look at what else I have(I remember the sag bhaji and someone kindly videoed me doing my bhuna).
So it was veg ghee then,I take it Az uses butter ghee for something then?? Maybe brushing naan breads??? Was it veg ghee that went into the massla paste and gravy then??? To be honest my head was spinning after concentrating trying to focus on the note taking,I wanted everything to be spot on.
Do you feel this "singeing" of spices should happen in all the curries or just some of the ones you made today
Does anyone know whether this "Coconut milk powder" is suitable for use as the coconut powder in Az's Masala sauce?Don't know how I missed this Chris. Coconut flour or powder is fine. Coconut milk powder is a different animal completely. Not 100% sure it would work
http://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/coconut-milk-powder--maggi-2229-p.asp (http://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/coconut-milk-powder--maggi-2229-p.asp)
they are different, but both flavour with coconut & thicken a bit, like adding flour/water, as long as its not dessicated it should be fine, i've seldom seen coconut flour for sale in any or the asian c&c's hereDoes anyone know whether this "Coconut milk powder" is suitable for use as the coconut powder in Az's Masala sauce?Don't know how I missed this Chris. Coconut flour or powder is fine. Coconut milk powder is a different animal completely. Not 100% sure it would work
http://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/coconut-milk-powder--maggi-2229-p.asp (http://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/coconut-milk-powder--maggi-2229-p.asp)
Yes, very simple. A medium sized onion finely chopped, 5 chillis roughly diced (right up my street) tsp salt 1 1/2 to 2 tsps of tumeric all fried in a chef's spoon of veg ghee and then in with the fresh spinach. Cook till wilted down and then cook some more :D. No mix powder and no gravy - simples ;D
Wonderful Saag Bhaji videos, guys, and between both of them I think I've got enough info to try it out for myself. Thank you again. :)Hi Ian. That should have read 5/6 large cloves of finely sliced garlic. Then a whole medium sized finely chopped onion. Sorry to disappoint mate but at 2.04 you'll see the chilli going in ;D :o. I think all tried it and nobody complained about the heat ::). They were just green finger chillies though ;). Whilst it was a superb dish it was Az's take on saag bhaji, different from what i am looking for. On the plus side i spotted something at Az's which may be the key to the dry spinach bhaji. I've had 3 attempts so far, none which i want to write about :-\. But i may have just sussed it after last nights meal at another local BIR i rarely used and Sundays experiences and observations ::) I will keep you posted on the appropriate thread.Yes, very simple. A medium sized onion finely chopped, 5 chillis roughly diced (right up my street) tsp salt 1 1/2 to 2 tsps of tumeric all fried in a chef's spoon of veg ghee and then in with the fresh spinach. Cook till wilted down and then cook some more :D. No mix powder and no gravy - simples ;D
So I take it from the vids that's 5 garlic cloves roughly diced, CH?! ;D My eyes popped out of my head when I saw your original post! :o Saag Phall, maybe ... ;D
Looks great. Did it achieve the dryness you were after?
Ian
--
Loads of it down this neck of the woods ELW. Apparently coconut milk powder dissolves and melts into the dish whereas the other merge and thicken, so i've read ???they are different, but both flavour with coconut & thicken a bit, like adding flour/water, as long as its not dessicated it should be fine, i've seldom seen coconut flour for sale in any or the asian c&c's hereDoes anyone know whether this "Coconut milk powder" is suitable for use as the coconut powder in Az's Masala sauce?Don't know how I missed this Chris. Coconut flour or powder is fine. Coconut milk powder is a different animal completely. Not 100% sure it would work
http://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/coconut-milk-powder--maggi-2229-p.asp (http://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/coconut-milk-powder--maggi-2229-p.asp)
ELW
sounds right..if its for flavour only the milk powder does the trick & doesn't thicken too much like a flour mightLoads of it down this neck of the woods ELW. Apparently coconut milk powder dissolves and melts into the dish whereas the other merge and thicken, so i've read ???they are different, but both flavour with coconut & thicken a bit, like adding flour/water, as long as its not dessicated it should be fine, i've seldom seen coconut flour for sale in any or the asian c&c's hereDoes anyone know whether this "Coconut milk powder" is suitable for use as the coconut powder in Az's Masala sauce?Don't know how I missed this Chris. Coconut flour or powder is fine. Coconut milk powder is a different animal completely. Not 100% sure it would work
http://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/coconut-milk-powder--maggi-2229-p.asp (http://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/coconut-milk-powder--maggi-2229-p.asp)
ELW
Interesting that Az opted on a well seasoned (naturally non-stick) steel pan for the Saag Bhaji, but 'sticky' Aluminium for the 'saucy' dishes.
I'm wondering if this gives a little more credence to Julian Curry2Go's ideas about Alu pans.
Did Az or his staff comment on this at all?
Gary
Edit- I've never seen saag bhaji either, is that popular?, people on here seem familiar with itThat's interesting. Has saag aloo always been available in your neck of the woods ELW? Maybe it's a regional thing. It is popular round here but not as popular as saag aloo in my experience from looking round at what people have on their tables. Saag bhaji has always been available in my area since i've been eating BIR whereas brinjal bhaji didn't used to feature on every menu. When i asked about this at one of my local BIR's years ago i was told that it does keep well and it ends up getting thrown out. But nowadays it appears on most menus thankfully ;D :P
Saag aloo features on every menu I've seen in Glasgow, often just called potato spinach & has done as far as I can remember. I reckon people here favour veg/chicken/mushroom pakora rather than onion bhaji, from what I can see. especially younger people with less traditional bir experience. I've seen brinjal called Bainghan/Bhangan ??? on couple of the better menus. I ignore spelling/naming now just bring me the grub! The crossover places that do the pizzas & kebabs probably don't do aubergine & maybe onion rings instead of onion bhaji's. The Saag Bhaji is a completely new one on me, but it's all good!Edit- I've never seen saag bhaji either, is that popular?, people on here seem familiar with itThat's interesting. Has saag aloo always been available in your neck of the woods ELW? Maybe it's a regional thing. It is popular round here but not as popular as saag aloo in my experience from looking round at what people have on their tables. Saag bhaji has always been available in my area since i've been eating BIR whereas brinjal bhaji didn't used to feature on every menu. When i asked about this at one of my local BIR's years ago i was told that it does keep well and it ends up getting thrown out. But nowadays it appears on most menus thankfully ;D
Do the guys who went to Zaal, think you or Az could turn out real bir quality from the recipe's on here like ca's, kd, etc, just by using better technique?Unfortunately, one cooking session with Az aint going to turn us into BIR chefs, if only ;). We now have to put what he taught us into practice and just with any other skill it is all about practice, practice and more practice before you get anywhere near to producing consistent results. A BIR chef cooks loads of dishes every night of the week. Us wanna be BIR chefs cook maybe a couple of dishes 2 or 3 times a week if that. That said it may take us a little longer to get there but at least now we know where we're heading :D
I'd be looking to revisit alot of recipe's if I notice a difference
ELW
Saag aloo features on every menu I've seen in Glasgow, often just called potato spinach & has done as far as I can remember. I reckon people here favour veg/chicken/mushroom pakora rather than onion bhaji, from what I can see. especially younger people with less traditional bir experience.So it's not that saag isn't available but regional tastes and preferences therefore explain why it's not on the menu.
I've seen brinjal called Bainghan/Bhangan ??? on couple of the better menus. I ignore spelling/naming now just bring me the grub!Those menus are written by either pakistani or indians then - a give away ;) It is truly amazing how differently many of the items on a menu are spelt by different BIR and TA establishments ;D
The Saag Bhaji is a completely new one on me, but it's all good!give it a go mate, you see how easy it was ;D ;)
ps. I'd definately soldier on with the veg ghee until it can be ruled out, those yellow buckets can be seen everywhere hereHaving brought a bucket of the stuff i certainly intend to. I will make two dishes, one with oil and one with veg ghee for direct comparison purposes. Will be interesting to see if there's a step change as a result. Before doing this though, i'll work on my singeing technique first. Attempt one starts this afternoon ;D . Chicken Phall a la Az take one 8)
This probably explains why most of us get the bir aroma seemingly coming out of nowhere from time to time. I'm glad to find out there are no brick walls for most of us now!Do the guys who went to Zaal, think you or Az could turn out real bir quality from the recipe's on here like ca's, kd, etc, just by using better technique?Unfortunately, one cooking session with Az aint going to turn us into BIR chefs, if only ;). We now have to put what he taught us into practice and just with any other skill it is all about practice, practice and more practice before you get anywhere near to producing consistent results. A BIR chef cooks loads of dishes every night of the week. Us wanna be BIR chefs cook maybe a couple of dishes 2 or 3 times a week if that. That said it may take us a little longer to get there but at least now we know where we're heading :D
I'd be looking to revisit alot of recipe's if I notice a difference
ELW
Being a BIR chef Az's recipes aren't written down, as you could see from the vids ;D He just programs in the dish required, then switches to auto pilot and out comes the ingredients required which is then translated to the chef's spoon.
You may have picked up on the comment he made when we quizzed him about the lack of mix powder in the saag bhaji video -"no, vegetable isn't it", the implication being he rarely used mix powder in a vegetable dish only turmeric, which coincides with my experience of my brinjal bhaji at my local.
Incidentally, the pots of spices in use were the normal culprits: turmeric, meethi leaves, salt, mix powder, chill powder, coconut powder/flour and ground almond and a container of tomato paste mixed one part paste to two parts water, gleaned from a chat over a cigarette :)
As for turning out BIR results from recipes on the forum, why wouldn't he, he's a BIR chef ;D. He may raise an eyebrow at the ingredients in some recipes but that would probably be because that's not exactly what he would use to cook the dish. I don't think there are any hard and fast rules about what goes into most dishes, it's more the interpretation that each chef will put on it. For certain dishes there probably is a concensus about what needs to go into to it, whereas other dishes there will probably be a lot more latitude and scope. The one thing that does crop up though is technique. Look how simple the phall was. It tasted superb. Would we have got the same results using a slow boat method of cooking, most definitely not. I've tried it and it comes nowhere near to what i cooked with Az's guidance on Sunday ;)
This probably explains why most of us get the bir aroma seemingly coming out of nowhere from time to time. I'm glad to find out there are no brick walls for most of us now!Quote from the teacher and master himself " it's not ******g rocket science" ;D ;D ;)
ELW
Do the guys who went to Zaal, think you or Az could turn out real bir quality from the recipe's on here like ca's, kd, etc, just by using better technique?
I'd be looking to revisit alot of recipe's if I notice a difference
ELW
This probably explains why most of us get the bir aroma seemingly coming out of nowhere from time to time. I'm glad to find out there are no brick walls for most of us now!Quote from the teacher and master himself " it's not ******g rocket science" ;D ;D ;)
ELW
We've just made it that way because of lack of availability of information from reliable sources.
Look how simple the phall was. It tasted superb. Would we have got the same results using a slow boat method of cooking, most definitely not. I've tried it and it comes nowhere near to what i cooked with Az's guidance on Sunday ;)
Wow,what a great thread.
I really must repeat what's already been said,and that's a big thank you for sharing your invaluable information for 'Free!'
For me,that really reflects what this whole website's about,and feel privileged to be a member.
Top work guys.
The other night I was reading how the Red Masala paste was made, but for the life of me cannot find it today.
Thanks :)
Guys,
It looks as though everyone had a great time and I wish I could have been there too.
Just one request please.
This thread is getting so big it's hard to go back and find recipes that people have made.
The other night I was reading how the Red Masala paste was made, but for the life of me cannot find it today.
Can I ask all that went that if you have posted a recipe on this thread from Sunday that you also post these recipes as separate recipes under the relevant sections on this site to make it easier for us to find them please.
Thanks :)
How an earth did you find time to take pics, take all the notes, take a video, skewer and cook the tikka and cook your own dish Jb?? :o :o
That's a good question!! Normally I have neat handwriting but you should see the state of my notebook!! (Although I can understand and follow everything I'd wrote).Thought I'd better take some pics as well.I have some more footage to upload but it's giving me a bit of grief....might have to call on Solarspice to help me out on that.The skewers?? Well I'm a natural Coz I have my own tandoori oven lol (sorry had to get that bit in).Now how could i forget you're the proud owner of a tandoori oven ::). Lucky **d. Sure SP will be able to help you out now he's got his pan search sorted :D
Just a few questions guys while it is still fresh in your minds if you don't mind:Sorry Paul. I can't answer all your questions. Will need the help of the other guys for that. Take a look at the chicken phall video:
1 Garlic/Ginger paste. Was this smooth like a puree or chunky i.e. not fully blended.
2 I guess the g/g went straight into the hot oil first. Could you tell whether it was browned before any other ingredients were added?
3 Were the powdered spices next i.e. mix powder and chilli powder?
4 When did the first quench with the watered tom puree take place? And was this cooked hard before the first base?
If it's on any of the videos then I'll take a look there but I was following the thread at work and can't see the videos there.
Cheers,
Paul
Just a few questions guys while it is still fresh in your minds if you don't mind:
1 Garlic/Ginger paste. Was this smooth like a puree or chunky i.e. not fully blended.
2 I guess the g/g went straight into the hot oil first. Could you tell whether it was browned before any other ingredients were added?
3 Were the powdered spices next i.e. mix powder and chilli powder?
4 When did the first quench with the watered tom puree take place? And was this cooked hard before the first base?
If it's on any of the videos then I'll take a look there but I was following the thread at work and can't see the videos there.
The best idea would be to watch the videos, some of which have been uploaded and some which are pending Solar getting this video editing hat on.Couldn't agree more Chris. All the vids taken are really helpful and can sometimes clarify things about the events on Sunday. I can't rememember how many times i've watched the phall one now, let alone the others. Well done to all the camera men is what i say ;)
All the vids taken are really helpful and can sometimes clarify things about the events on Sunday.
George FFS man, there were 8+ people running around in that kitchen trying to help the cause and you are complaining about video production issues !!
get a life .....
Really George, it's apples and oranges to compare the Az videos with Chewy's.
George, I'm meaning one is instructional, the other is 'fly on the wall'.
A big thank you to the guys and Az as I know you didn't have to document the lessons for us on video, but for your generosity, you did us all and the forum proud.
QuoteA big thank you to the guys and Az as I know you didn't have to document the lessons for us on video, but for your generosity, you did us all and the forum proud.
It was the reset this forum needed. Cr0 was recipe after recipe, all in all from credible sources, but most people don't know how to cook them properly & until they do are wasting their time following recipe's in their current form..I know it's not the first time a bir kitchen has been visited, but its the credibility factor of the Fleet5 ;) that make this bir report significant. most of it was just 'forum posts' until now.
Anything to report on the Bhuna jb? technique or ingredients?
ELW
It was a hell of a lot to take in in 1 go. Now that the base is nailed, it leaves more room to maneuver. I often wondered if bir's had 'borrowed' the term bhuna implying technique rather than ingredients, for the menu, as everything seems to be bhooned at the start. You could be right on it there with the extra mix powder, as you know, a good bhuna is magic stuff, better than Madras imhoQuoteA big thank you to the guys and Az as I know you didn't have to document the lessons for us on video, but for your generosity, you did us all and the forum proud.
It was the reset this forum needed. Cr0 was recipe after recipe, all in all from credible sources, but most people don't know how to cook them properly & until they do are wasting their time following recipe's in their current form..I know it's not the first time a bir kitchen has been visited, but its the credibility factor of the Fleet5 ;) that make this bir report significant. most of it was just 'forum posts' until now.
Anything to report on the Bhuna jb? technique or ingredients?
ELW
Well he added loads of onions and some chopped green pepper,more than any other dish that we cooked.It was cooked in the same way although Az did show me how to push the pan backwards and forwards while scraping it,you'll see what I mean in the video.It's interesting to note that he varied the amount of mix powder that went into every dish,not measured but he just dipped his chef spoon into the powder just so far judged solely by his eye.When we hopefully return(!!) I think the actual cooking of the mains,sides will probably be our main focus and they will be thoroughly documented.
Five guys who have the same passion not just for the food but for the knowledge on how to cook it. It could have been any 5 CR0 members as we all share that same passion (well, maybe except one ;).
Yay, happy days!
Anyway who would like to see another video posted later? I have footage of a Bhuna or a rather singed Vindaloo - which should be first?
Regards
to help understand the extent of "singeing" is it the equivalent of the "toffee" smell or is it a bit further fried.
to help understand the extent of "singeing" is it the equivalent of the "toffee" smell or is it a bit further fried.I think it's the bitterness either side of cooking, under/over which makes this difficult to get right
Yay, happy days!
Anyway who would like to see another video posted later? I have footage of a Bhuna or a rather singed Vindaloo - which should be first?
Regards
I made 2 chicken tikka bhunas last nightNice one Jeera, did you use the spice mix in place of the onion paste? I think thats supposed to be the job of the paste. I don't find it (the paste)strong enough. What about the G&G?
Ashoka base
1tsp AZ mix powder (homemade garamasama)
2 tbl tomato puree/water mixture
1tsp methi
pinch garamasala and fresh coriander at the end.
I used reclaimed oil in the first and plain veg oil in the second. I also added hot water after the base since the AZ version was very watery.
Result?
Curry #1 - stunning
Curry #2- same as #1
I smelled the frying pan before I washed it this morning, smelled phenomenal.
This is definitely it ladies and gents. I can't thank you enough guys.
2
Thanks guys for great posts.
looks like the knack is singeing the spice mix.
Can you confirm for all curries you made that this is done with the tomato paste mixture added or is it done just with the spice mix in the pan
Keep up the good work.
Tonight I made a lamb madras with special attention paid to the frying of the spices to get that characteristic "grab at the back of your throat and make you splutter" aroma before the base sauce was added. Result? About twice as nice as any madras I've cooked before! Really, I'm delighted.
But I also started to ponder this question of why, if this is an important fundamental component of the "correct" flavour has this been so under reported? My conclusion has to be that it *isn't* essential - it can't be or the very many first hand reports and videos we've had from BIR kitchens would have been shouting about it. In fact it's easy to find examples where experienced chefs clearly do not singe their spices, this is the first one I looked for on youtube with Dipu apparently adding his spices to a cold pan and not leaving them there long enough to singe before the base sauce is added:
How to make lamb madras (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv0zEG5-1Nk#)
So maybe this isn't the panacea that we assume, although my early results suggest it really does work for me. It would be great to get some input on this point from more BIR chefs, maybe Abdul has a view?
natterjack, it is down to this spice frying mate....i'm a believer...my kitchen smells like a BIR ( curry #3 was as good as #1 & #2.... can't believe it)
Hi All
I've followed this thread, with interest and enjoyment as it unfolded
Kids in a Sweet Shop. Whoa. ;D
Some of members kitchen skills, reminded me of 'The Generation Game'
Who was chopping the garlic, Crikey. ;D ;D LOL, in a good way.
Az should hold these sessions every month, great entertainment.
I was curious about him combining the two normal Red Masala mixes into one.
Did anybody notice another Red 'Jhal" mix lying about on his worktop collection.
Oh, I'm glad the penny has finally dropped with my 'Singe the spices' term.
I suppose being shown in real life is better than watching a video or reading a post.
Just a thought, but why don't you practice your Tarka technique with just a bit base gravy.
I often do this when I'm testing new Masala mixes and looking for new flavours.
Practice, Practice, Practice and have fun ;)
cheers Chewy
[/quote
Hi Chewytikka when you say red masala mixes do you mean the way the red masala paste was made?? If it is then is there another way this is usually made then? Where did you see the red 'jhal' mix??? I missed that cheers Jb
Maybe chewy is referring to the two different red "sauces" on the counter below the spice rack. These were blended plum tomatoes and watered down tomato puree. Not sure I understand the 'jhal' reference either?Yes there are somethings which need to remain secret and within Az's kitchen, if you know what I mean ;)
The garlic chopper? I think he should remain anonymous.... 8)
if your "secret" means that much then you can keep it....
in fact ...I'll tell you exactly where the "secret" goes......it is inserted through the anus :)
in other words... "stick it right up yer arse :)"
cheers :)
if your "secret" means that much then you can keep it....If the group that went to Zaal didn't tell what they know on cr0(they didn't have to), their credibility would zip afterwards. It is fairly easy to quiz them for B.S. B.S doesn't come across in the demeanor of any of the 5 imo. It's fair that there should be a degree of p**s taking for a bit
in fact ...I'll tell you exactly where the "secret" goes......it is inserted through the anus :)
in other words... "stick it right up yer arse :)"
cheers :)
It is fairly easy to quiz them for B.S.
Tonight I made a lamb madras with special attention paid to the frying of the spices to get that characteristic "grab at the back of your throat and make you splutter" aroma before the base sauce was added. Result? About twice as nice as any madras I've cooked before! Really, I'm delighted.Hi nj, I realise I'm preaching to the converted, but this is exactly why I'm stating the Zaal visit as is a significant bir@home reset on cr0 & anywhere else .I'm putting Dip in the bag with kd,kushi,B.E, Abdul, (Amateurs aside), for failing to relay to the what creates a
But I also started to ponder this question of why, if this is an important fundamental component of the "correct" flavour has this been so under reported? My conclusion has to be that it *isn't* essential - it can't be or the very many first hand reports and videos we've had from BIR kitchens would have been shouting about it. In fact it's easy to find examples where experienced chefs clearly do not singe their spices, this is the first one I looked for on youtube with Dipu apparently adding his spices to a cold pan and not leaving them there long enough to singe before the base sauce is added:
How to make lamb madras (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv0zEG5-1Nk#)
So maybe this isn't the panacea that we assume, although my early results suggest it really does work for me. It would be great to get some input on this point from more BIR chefs, maybe Abdul has a view?
I prefer opinion over backslapping all day long George, but i can't think of anything negative about the Zaal vids. Unstaged & unscripted is a rare form of media these daysIt is fairly easy to quiz them for B.S.
I'm not so sure. When I asked a fairly straight forward question earlier in this thread it prompted a very tetchy, off-topic and personally insulting response from CurryHell. I'm sorry that the thread then went into argument mode but it wasn't my fault.
Hi JBThis is the sort knowledge & opinion that may be being wasted on me & many others at this stage Chewytikka. You should redo some of your vids &tuts , focussing on initial technique, its a glaring omission in bir@home
Yes Az's, Red Masala Paste has what I call "The Sweet paste" = i.e. Coconut, Almond and Sugar included.
This is great if your making plenty of CTM's.
But I find that unusual in my experience, because the Red Masala Sauce is the "souring" ingredients and is usually separate
(and is virtually a runny Tandoori marinade).
Just makes for more versatile cooking, i.e. there are lots of dishes that a Chef will use a splash of
Red Masala Sauce in, but he won't want the Coconut, Almond and Sugar in it as well.
Like any Jhal Dishes, for instance i.e. Jhal Frezi, or Jhal Zool, there's no sweet paste ingredients in these. but there might be in Az's Restaurant
nothing wrong in that, his customers might love it.
My Jhal mix and Red Masala sauce are virtually the same
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5699.msg56567#msg56567 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5699.msg56567#msg56567)
Here's an old clip of the 2 paste and sauce being combined to make a CTM
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5988.msg59309#msg59309 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5988.msg59309#msg59309)
http://www.southtyneside.com/sizzler/ctm.html (http://www.southtyneside.com/sizzler/ctm.html)
I still think AZ will have a Red Masala Sauce lurking about. ;)
cheers Chewy, Who's Singe-ed there nostril hair then. :D
Oh, I'm glad the penny has finally dropped with my 'Singe the spices' term.Think you've hit the nail on the head CT. How often do we ignore what we're told until we experience it ourselves? It's that old saying about "horses, water, drink, isn't it". There's nothing like saying "i told you so". But you didn't, you just let us work that out for ourselves. Full marks, we should have listened but like most, you prefer to learn by your own mistakes. Futile, i know, but that's how we humans operate.
I suppose being shown in real life is better than watching a video or reading a post.
if your "secret" means that much then you can keep it....
in fact ...I'll tell you exactly where the "secret" goes......it is inserted through the anus :)
in other words... "stick it right up yer arse :)"
cheers :)
Mate, I think the "secret" Curryhell is talking about is the anonymity of the garlic chopper :)
Gary
Hi JB
Yes Az's, Red Masala Paste has what I call "The Sweet paste" = i.e. Coconut, Almond and Sugar included.
This is great if your making plenty of CTM's.
But I find that unusual in my experience, because the Red Masala Sauce is the "souring" ingredients and is usually separate
(and is virtually a runny Tandoori marinade).
Just makes for more versatile cooking, i.e. there are lots of dishes that a Chef will use a splash of
Red Masala Sauce in, but he won't want the Coconut, Almond and Sugar in it as well.
Like any Jhal Dishes, for instance i.e. Jhal Frezi, or Jhal Zool, there's no sweet paste ingredients in these. but there might be in Az's Restaurant
nothing wrong in that, his customers might love it.
My Jhal mix and Red Masala sauce are virtually the same
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5699.msg56567#msg56567 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5699.msg56567#msg56567)
Here's an old clip of the 2 paste and sauce being combined to make a CTM
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5988.msg59309#msg59309 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5988.msg59309#msg59309)
http://www.southtyneside.com/sizzler/ctm.html (http://www.southtyneside.com/sizzler/ctm.html)
I still think AZ will have a Red Masala Sauce lurking about. ;)
cheers Chewy, Who's Singe-ed there nostril hair then. :D
natterjack, it is down to this spice frying mate....i'm a believer...my kitchen smells like a BIR ( curry #3 was as good as #1 & #2.... can't believe it)
yes you're right Haldi it has been mentioned numerous times before ....
Hi Jeera (or anybody succeesfully singeing) glad to hear your success stories with this methodDo the chefs taste as they go?, to the amateur it seems like there is a small margin for error, surely they must botch a few here & there when their working at full pelt. I've had watery/too much oil/a bit bland/ too hot/not hot enough, but never bitter or powdery. How often do they bin & start over?
What do you feel is best practice for the "singeing", as a lot of us have found out, if the oil is too hot the garlic/ginger blackens almost instantly, are you cranking the heat up after the G/G's in and then adding spices and tom puree or are you melting the pan from the start and then deftly adding the other ingredients?? ???
W
Hi Jeera (or anybody succeesfully singeing) glad to hear your success stories with this method
What do you feel is best practice for the "singeing", as a lot of us have found out, if the oil is too hot the garlic/ginger blackens almost instantly, are you cranking the heat up after the G/G's in and then adding spices and tom puree or are you melting the pan from the start and then deftly adding the other ingredients?? ???
W
Glad you've cracked it Jeera. I suppose I use the garlic paste like a thermometer to test the temp of the pan before i add the spice. Dread to think of some of the results i could of have had without doing this :o >:( >:( ;DHi Jeera (or anybody succeesfully singeing) glad to hear your success stories with this method
What do you feel is best practice for the "singeing", as a lot of us have found out, if the oil is too hot the garlic/ginger blackens almost instantly, are you cranking the heat up after the G/G's in and then adding spices and tom puree or are you melting the pan from the start and then deftly adding the other ingredients?? ???
W
I heated the pan, added 2 tbl oil, let that heat up then added the powder, methi and tomato paste and cook for 30 secs. No G&G pates in any of mine so far... I may try that in the next one. cheers.
btw, now that this part is cracked, I plan to mess around with different mix powder and garamasala (homemade) to seek out specific restaurant variations. I'll post any successes.
To my knowledge no one except CA has wanted to talk technique before. Solarspaces thoughts would help as he has had a burner for a good while too.
Making a new batch of base today and this will include whole spices as AZ's spiced water,also making my own garam masala and will be trying the 'singe method :D' ,I am expecting big things from tonight's madras ;)God, i hope we don't disappoint :o. I'm really interested in the spiced water that gets added to the base. When quizzed Az said it's just for smell. I'm sure it adds a special little something to the overall taste and effect of the gravy though. Will be interesting to hear your comments on the smell and taste of the finished base emin-j. We all thought it wasn't much different to those we'd made, although a hint of sweetness was detected. Maybe this came from the cassia in the spiced water ???
[/quote]Oh, I'm glad the penny has finally dropped with my 'Singe the spices' term.Think you've hit the nail on the head CT. How often do we ignore what we're told until we experience it ourselves? It's that old saying about "horses, water, drink, isn't it". There's nothing like saying "i told you so". But you didn't, you just let us work that out for ourselves. Full marks, we should have listened but like most, you prefer to learn by your own mistakes. Futile, i know, but that's how we humans operate.
I suppose being shown in real life is better than watching a video or reading a post.
Credit where it is due CT.
I will adopt the following thought, without question. Lesson learned ;D
Practice, Practice, Practice and have fun ;)
cheers Chewy
This is the sort knowledge & opinion that may be being wasted on me & many others at this stage Chewytikka. You should redo some of your vids &tuts , focussing on initial technique, its a glaring omission in bir@homeELW.
Regards
ELW
Do the chefs taste as they go?, to the amateur it seems like there is a small margin for error, surely they must botch a few here & there when their working at full pelt. I've had watery/too much oil/a bit bland/ too hot/not hot enough, but never bitter or powdery. How often do they bin & start over?I must have missed this. One can only assume that they're sufficiently proficient that they don't burn ;D or undercook. But as you say you sometimes do get the occasional curry that's not up to the normal mark.
edit- is it tomato paste or puree? & would the supermarket brands give a different flavour to the brands suppling the trade?
ELW
I hear Az, calling it puree in the phall video. Paste is sweeter isn't it? I can't find White Tower out of the big c&c's too often. Some Tescos may have it :-\ They have all the brands associated with asian foods, Natco/WT/East End, versions of puree's & pastes...I've been using the Italian stuff ???, Is this anyway different?There is a thread and a lot of discussion about the differences between paste, puree, pasata etc somewhere, which gets heated at one point, just for a change ;D
Hi CH, I'm not saying I told you so, but I did share this knowledge for you all.
I also shared this info directly to NJ back in October.
quote.Hi NJ
I think your spot on there.
Abdul's recipe is quite close to mine.
Just to add my thoughts - as I've cooked this Thousands of times.
There's a knack to a Good Madras
Which is what I call singeing the Tarka.
In other words you need to slightly burn the spices "Singe"
and then once you add the gravy, that too has to be cooked on high heat.
This goes against your normal cooking methods (or logic) but I think it is an essential
method to produce restaurant style dishes like Madras at home.
Watch my Madras video recipe and you will get the idea. quote.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=6214.msg61896#msg61896 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=6214.msg61896#msg61896)
If you read my Chicken Madras for Lunch post . ? on: December 15, 2011, 04:06:23 PM ?
quote.Hi All
I knocked up a Chicken Madras for lunch yesterday, thought I'd share the cooking technique and recipe which I was first taught by a Bengali Chef over 35 years ago.
I was taught "The Knack" to a Madras and to a few other BIR dishes, was to burn the spices to get the flavour.
Which I would explain as more like "singe" and judging this just takes practice.
I boiled about one and a half litres of water with a 3 inch long piece of cinammon, 2 bay leaves and four white cardamon podsI believe the recipe says i hpd chef's spoon. Believe me, it does mean heaped. Listen to what Az says as we're getting the ghee out of the tub for the masala mix ;D.
I kept the lid on
After ten minutes I strained this int
It smelt really good
Nothing like Pat Chapman's Akhni
That stuff dominated everything, it went into
I added it to the boiled onions after blending
I used the spices again, for the precooking chicken
There didn't seem enough ghee to really fry the ground spices
It sort of globbed together (smelt amazing though)
I added a lttle water a couple of times, to stop burning
Anyone else found this?
Hi Jeera (or anybody succeesfully singeing) glad to hear your success stories with this method
What do you feel is best practice for the "singeing", as a lot of us have found out, if the oil is too hot the garlic/ginger blackens almost instantly, are you cranking the heat up after the G/G's in and then adding spices and tom puree or are you melting the pan from the start and then deftly adding the other ingredients?? ???
W
I made 2 chicken tikka bhunas last nightI'm having major success with this now also. I'd recommend using the ashoka kit altogether(base not so crucial), the banjarra onion paste really comes to life when the spices are cooked correctly. It really is the work of a chef. I never knew which tree to bark up next until the Zaal report. It gets more interesting now, & the experiments will continue, but I know now the 'taste' is hot fused spices.
Ashoka base
1tsp AZ mix powder (homemade garamasama)
2 tbl tomato puree/water mixture
1tsp methi
pinch garamasala and fresh coriander at the end.
I used reclaimed oil in the first and plain veg oil in the second. I also added hot water after the base since the AZ version was very watery.
Result?
Curry #1 - stunning
Curry #2- same as #1
I smelled the frying pan before I washed it this morning, smelled phenomenal.
This is definitely it ladies and gents. I can't thank you enough guys.
2
I'm having major success with this now also. I'd recommend using the ashoka kit altogether(base not so crucial), the banjarra onion paste really comes to life when the spices are cooked correctly. It really is the work of a chef. I never knew which tree to bark up next until the Zaal report. It gets more interesting now, & the experiments will continue, but I know now the 'taste' is hot fused spices.
Kushi base
Zaal Mix Pwdr
Ashoka Banjarra
Ashoka GARLIC/ginger
ELW
I'm having major success with this now also. I'd recommend using the ashoka kit altogether(base not so crucial), the banjarra onion paste really comes to life when the spices are cooked correctly. It really is the work of a chef. I never knew which tree to bark up next until the Zaal report. It gets more interesting now, & the experiments will continue, but I know now the 'taste' is hot fused spices.
Kushi base
Zaal Mix Pwdr
Ashoka Banjarra
Ashoka GARLIC/ginger
ELW
In a way it's a shame that Cory, who was always asking folks to define what they meant by "technique", has chosen this moment to absent himself. I'm sure he would love all this.
In most of the curries I buy, there is an underlying flavourOh dear, oh dear, oh dear : very sorry to hear that, Haldi. I've tried the Az method twice now, once two nights ago and once tonight. On the first occasion, the chicken went tough on me, which I put down to cooking it at too high a temperature, and the flavour was not up to par, but when I re-heated it last night it was a definite winner. The chicken had had time to rest, the spices had blended perfectly, and the result was 100% BIR. Tonight I attempted the same dish (slight modification to quantities), but I deliberately rested the chicken after its first spiced-oil & tumeric pre-cook, re-introducing it back into the main curry after the first ladle of base. This gave far better results, and I shall certainly use that method in future. Spicing (in case anyone is interested) was (all units are teaspoons) 1 Turmeric (for pre-cooking the chicken), 1 Rajah Hot Madras Curry Power, 1 Kashmiri Mirch, 1 Degghi Mirch, 1 Cumin, 1 Salt, 1/2 Fenugreek (powder) and 2 g/g paste. Tomato puree wasn't measured, but probably 2 teaspoons, diluted 1:2. G/G paste is 50:50 in oil.
And it's not in tonight's home cooked curries
I clearly need help on this oneGENTLEMEN, I HAVE ARRIVED, AFTER NIGH ON 30 YEARS,
WE'RE THERE
Awaiting me tonight when i get in from a celebratory drink down the pub is a BIR curry cooked by me, aided by Az who must have been watching over my shoulder tonight. All done on a POXY electric hob in a home kitchen. It has the TASTE, it has the SMELL, it has the intense heat that only singed chilli powder can have considering i only used 1/2 a level chef's spoon. My local could have cooked it ;D ;D
I've been watching the videos
I don't think a conventional cooker can get the required heat
In the video, the introduction of anything to the pan, is greeted with a burst of flames
That is really hot
Mega hot
Next time I cook, I shall use my big burner
Perhaps this will make the difference
Awaiting me tonight when i get in from a celebratory drink down the pub is a BIR curry cooked by me, aided by Az who must have been watching over my shoulder tonight. All done on a POXY electric hob in a home kitchen. It has the TASTE, it has the SMELL, it has the intense heat that only singed chilli powder can have considering i only used 1/2 a level chef's spoon. My local could have cooked it ;D ;DWell done, CH. I too cook on electric, never produce flames (SWMBO would kill me if I did), but have no difficulty singeing the spices. Maybe visually unimpressive, but the taste is spot-on.
Curryhell im not letting you get away with you nicking my smiley for your avatarI hope you didn't mind but after Chriswg's comment on my knife skills and you posting that avatar the two just seemed a match made in heaven. A bit like mix powder chilli and tomato paste all singed together, if you know what I mean ;D ;D
Are you frying with ghee,though?I've been watching the videos
I don't think a conventional cooker can get the required heat
In the video, the introduction of anything to the pan, is greeted with a burst of flames
That is really hot
Mega hot
Next time I cook, I shall use my big burner
Perhaps this will make the difference
Haldi, I'm cooking on an ageing Philips Whirlpool gas hob, just a domestic thing nothing special.
Believe me it was plenty hot enough, I've made two curries tonight (three if you count the one blackened effort that had to be binned - again!)
I had two foot high flames with one while adding just the G&G paste to the pan
Gary
Are you frying with ghee,though?
GENTELMEN, I HAVE ARRIVED, AFTER NIGH ON 30 YEARS,
WE'RE THERE
Awaiting me tonight when i get in from a celebratory drink down the pub is a BIR curry cooked by me, aided by Az who must have been watching over my shoulder tonight. All done on a POXY electric hob in a home kitchen. It has the TASTE, it has the SMELL, it has the intense heat that only singed chilli powder can have considering i only used 1/2 a level chef's spoon. My local could have cooked it ;D ;D
Hi CT, yes absolutely I agree, both you and other posters have mentioned this technique and to be clear I'm not claiming it as a new discovery, simply that I hadn't understood what was meant by "burn the spices" until I saw it happen in front of me and (perhaps most importantly) smelled it... I think there will be a number of forum members who, despite it having been mentioned in the past, will not have picked up on the importance of this point nor perhaps understood how to put it into practice. Maybe this is what will prove to be the most useful function served by this thread and the associated videos
I hear Az, calling it puree in the phall video. Paste is sweeter isn't it? I can't find White Tower out of the big c&c's too often. Some Tescos may have it :-\ They have all the brands associated with asian foods, Natco/WT/East End, versions of puree's & pastes...I've been using the Italian stuff ???, Is this anyway different?There is a thread and a lot of discussion about the differences between paste, puree, pasata etc somewhere, which gets heated at one point, just for a change ;D
Az calls it puree but it is diluted concentrated paste that we were using. I discussed this stuff at some length with him over a cigarette to see whether he did anything special in its preparaton. In the preparation of the gravy etc we were using blended tinned tomatoes as opposed to the "puree".
It doesn't have to be the white tower brand, any will do. I'm sure Az buys whats best priced at the time. As for there being any difference, i'm not sure but i wouldn't think so. I've never tried anything else and have always used the paste and diluted it down.
QuoteHi CT, yes absolutely I agree, both you and other posters have mentioned this technique and to be clear I'm not claiming it as a new discovery, simply that I hadn't understood what was meant by "burn the spices" until I saw it happen in front of me and (perhaps most importantly) smelled it... I think there will be a number of forum members who, despite it having been mentioned in the past, will not have picked up on the importance of this point nor perhaps understood how to put it into practice. Maybe this is what will prove to be the most useful function served by this thread and the associated videos
Nicely put into a few sentences, a corner has been turned natterjack, now I can correct the disservice I've done on nearly every bir recipe I've attempted & do them properly ::). Only now will the talent of a skilled chef become apparent, now we have the basics down.The possibilities are endless. I've a tough task ahead trying to recreate the top bir in my city, but the sky's the limit
In a way it's a shame that Cory, who was always asking folks to define what they meant by "technique", has chosen this moment to absent himself. I'm sure he would love all this.
QuoteHi CT, yes absolutely I agree, both you and other posters have mentioned this technique and to be clear I'm not claiming it as a new discovery, simply that I hadn't understood what was meant by "burn the spices" until I saw it happen in front of me and (perhaps most importantly) smelled it... I think there will be a number of forum members who, despite it having been mentioned in the past, will not have picked up on the importance of this point nor perhaps understood how to put it into practice. Maybe this is what will prove to be the most useful function served by this thread and the associated videos
Nicely put into a few sentences, a corner has been turned natterjack, now I can correct the disservice I've done on nearly every bir recipe I've attempted & do them properly ::). Only now will the talent of a skilled chef become apparent, now we have the basics down.The possibilities are endless. I've a tough task ahead trying to recreate the top bir in my city, but the sky's the limit
Hi ELW, burning the midnight oil? (as well as the spice mix?)
Actually I feel the same way, i think many of the curry recipes which have left me underwhelmed in the past year should be given a second chance now I have this new variable to play with. I've tended to go from one base to another to yet another hoping to correct deficiencies in the taste of my curries by somehow chancing on a "magic" base but now I'm quite sure the larger part of the answer lies in what happens in the pan before the base is added. I even cooked my last batch of base for hours hoping to be able to rid myself of the undercooked undertones I could taste in my finished dishes, undertones which have disappeared since I've started singeing the spices & tomato puree.
When Chriswg proposed lessons with Az I was eager to sign up to them and happy to pay the asking price but never expected to get quite so much from the day. I'm especially delighted that it's not just those of us who were in the kitchen and who experienced that distinctive throat-grabbing smell who have been able to turn it to their advantage at home but other guys like yourself are also onboard and understanding this key point now.
Heh Heh
Cracking post that CH, can't wait to get going again. Which dish are you gonna try and replicate next??
W
Another good read, CH, and especially useful, I would think, for other members of the forum who use electric hobs and who haven't tried this technique yet. I especially like the part where you explain and describe your own criteria for recognising the 'singeing window'.Believe me I only wish there was such a tool as a singeing gauge ???. Life would be so much easier :). But until there is I'll just have to rely on developing my "eye and feel". But if anybody has any suggestions how else i can achieve this with less risk, please post them up. Any suggestion will be considered ::)
And didn't Winnie also say: "We shall curry on to the end, we shall singe in Essex, we shall singe on the gas and the electric hobs, we shall singe with growing confidence and growing vapours in the air"? ;DClassic ;D I hadn't thought of adapting that one
Are there any more videos from the Zaal session we can look forward to, guys? :)
Good analytical thinking, CH, and many congratulations on your success. Just one query, if I may ? When you write of cooking on electric (as I do : halogen & induction), what exactly do you mean by "On went the hob set at mark 5" ? "Gas Mark 5" I am familiar with, but what is "Mark 5" on an electric hob ?Cheers Phil. I obviously didn't explain that bit too well, did i. My cooker has plates rather than the old conventional ring elements. Nothing like your modern day halogen induction all signing and dancing kit. The hot plate dials have settings on them, 1 - 9, so i chose just over midway for a more gentle crawl to the temperature before that singe occurred rather than a viscious one, if you know what i mean ;D
** Phil.
CH well done for finally reaching your Holy Grail ;DHi emin-j. I don't think the veg ghee has anything to do with "the taste". It's just a medium for frying the spices. Obviously it will have an affect on the overall flavour of the dish but to what degree i cannot say at this point. I believe the same result could have been achieved and is regularly by using ordinary cooking oil.
A couple of questions mate,do you think using veg ghee had anything to do with achieving 'the taste' and do you think you could repeat this again using veg oil ;)
CH well done for finally reaching your Holy Grail ;D
A couple of questions mate,do you think using veg ghee had anything to do with achieving 'the taste' and do you think you could repeat this again using veg oil ;)
I must have got something wrongHi Haldi, the flavour of the base, as we know it when tasting, seems to fade into the background somewhat, once the spices are fused, 'layers of flavour' is a great description, the originator of which I don't know. You'll be kicking yourself soon, when you realise how simple it is...I am
The curries were good, but not exceptionally good
Maybe I disagree with Az
This is Rocket Science
The base smelt great, the spice had an incredible aroma, the chicken was just right,the curries texture were perfect
I just don't get it
In most of the curries I buy, there is an underlying flavour
And it's not in tonight's home cooked curries
???
Well, here goes guys. I hope some of it helps ;)
A week today five of us set off for Zaal
This post wouldn't be out of place in the Sunday Times supplement. Good luck with the curries, I'll be hitting madras next to keep it simple & I think it should further test my skill singeing the Kashmiri chilli powder. The banjarra paste is a lot of work, but I'd definately pencil it in if you haven't already made it in the past.
Can we see the bhuna video jb?
ELW
I couldn't resist making a curry tonight so had a go with base from the freezer, it was C2G base but to me it has too much spice in it for what i'm used to. The resultant curry was delicious, in fact my best attempt to date, yet not quite right if i'm honest as it was too overpowering with curry spice, this i'm putting down to the base. >:( I feel i'm on the right lines and i'm gonna make this Az base next. I'm not gonna make the banjarra as whilst i'm sure it will give a good curry result I have never seen it used around where I am so success can be achieved without it :-\Glad to hear your latest creation is your best so far W. You are obviously heading in the right direction ;D. Over spicing obviously is a problem we need to aware of. Looking at a couple of the videos Az is quick correct the keen students and reduces the quantities of spice we were intent on using during the cooking of our dishes. Biggest shock for me was the minimal amount of chilli powder in my phall :o. But when cooked correctly it was more than adequate in heat ;D
I like the fact that theres not a lot of spice in the base, nor is there half a litre of oil. I am however gonna buy some veg ghee despite concerns and conquer this bloody curry lark. Once cracked (fingers crossed) i'd then like to see just how much healthier a curry could get with a reduced amounts of fats, what a lovely diet that would be!!! heh heh ;D
Onward and upward
W
BIR dish DIY'd
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/84bc5b8d88ab655e34253bc5fa434dd0.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#84bc5b8d88ab655e34253bc5fa434dd0.jpg)
The real deal
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/6369df6a9dace110bead1a54274e74c1.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#6369df6a9dace110bead1a54274e74c1.jpg)
And again
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/cb7febbde49fc3e6955f1d3b8390df2b.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#cb7febbde49fc3e6955f1d3b8390df2b.jpg)
And a close up
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/abe0218064948fb64486f5ff08129c3f.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#abe0218064948fb64486f5ff08129c3f.jpg)
Hi CH, that phall really looks pukka! Hats off to you :)I have to say it tasted every bit as good as it looked NJ and all thanks to that memorable trip a week ago ;D Good singeing mate. Keep us up to speed on developments :)
Thanks Wickerman, glad you found it useful.QuoteI've just been looking back at old posts, about the use of high flame burners to achieve that 'special taste'.As I said, hindsight is a great thing. Yes, part of the answer was there staring us in the face. In spite of the efforts of some, we chose to ignore the obvious.
It all becomes crystal clear once you think about it.QuoteI can't wait to give this a go on my humble old gas hob. :DI'll swap you my electic hob for your old gas hob ;)
Any sign of the Bhuna Vid and recipe yet guy's, Or have I missed it
Les
The Fleet 5 does sound a little bit like an IRA terrorist group.The Fleet 5 are innocent, OK.
;D ;D I'd say our speciality is arson and incendiary dishes rather than terrorism Chris ;) and it does seem quite appropriate to imortalise the location where all the secret ingredients and the secret itself went up in smoke so to speak.The Fleet 5 does sound a little bit like an IRA terrorist group.
The Fleet 5 are innocent, OK.
Spray this on every motorway bridge gantry and brick wall that you pass :-)
curryhell,Cheers Jerry. If we all keep at it we'll all get there in the end. At the end of the day it's all about doing it consistantly though and that will only come with practice.
lovely post. i'm really chuffed for you and what it means to other members.
i've really tried but never managed anything like the taste in my kitchen. all i can think is the burner makes it that bit easier once your eye and feel are upto speed.
hopefully we can all now concentrate on that last 3%.
curryhell,
hopefully we can all now concentrate on that last 3%.
The Fleet 5 does sound a little bit like an IRA terrorist group. Oh well!
The Fleet 5 does sound a little bit like an IRA terrorist group.The Fleet 5 are innocent, OK.
Spray this on every motorway bridge gantry and brick wall that you pass :-)
It is part of a neglected cooking process already mentioned on this forum, but quickly forgotten
It is part of a neglected cooking process already mentioned on this forum, but quickly forgotten
I have been reading this thread with some interest and am now wondering if it is a huge "wind up" :)
Maybe Darth was cooking his properly????...it's still a bit hit & miss at the moment for me, but putting emphasis on the very 1st sttge of cooking gave me the only bir taste yetI have been reading this thread with some interest and am now wondering if it is a huge "wind up" :)
My hunch is that it's certainly not an intentional wind up, but the FF5 were like kids in a sweet shop and their infectious enthusiasm has rolled on for over a week now. Good luck to them, but all this % talk is so nominal and meaningless. Darth was claiming 99% c2005 so how come we've dropped back by at least 2%?
It remains to be seen whether this will enter the history books as a very significant moment for the forum in most folks' eyes.
Hi CH, that phall really looks pukka! Hats off to you :)I have to say it tasted every bit as good as it looked NJ and all thanks to that memorable trip a week ago ;D Good singeing mate. Keep us up to speed on developments :)
for clarification the 3% i see and have seen for many months is being able to produce the full range of BIR dishes to top notch restaurant standard (CA's words are better but mean the same). the 3% has not changed over the last week and i don't see a need for any changes to what i do already.Same, but I have overcame a huge hurdle only this week. I don't think I'll be able to stop myself trying to recreate some of my fav local bir dishes, once I can knock out the classics time after time. Some of the special dishes here have crushed chillies/coriander seed etc tempered in oil poured over the dish, they are the business!! There is no end game really, now that I know the road
it really is down to how high a bar you're aiming for.
if you're happy with what you produce then you have no gap and no missing %. i very much hope and expect that the fleet 5 have achieved this for most members.
for me personally i think the last 3% lies in: recipe refinement, sauces & pastes, mix powder
I don't think I'll be able to stop myself trying to recreate some of my fav local bir dishes, once I can knock out the classics time after time. Some of the special dishes here have crushed chillies/coriander seed etc tempered in oil poured over the dish, they are the business!! There is no end game really, now that I know the road
ELW
Yes Stephen, once I've got the favs down properly , I'm going to try to clone some of my local's versions & dishes, thats going to be a tall order. It's still a bit hit & miss at the moment.I don't think I'll be able to stop myself trying to recreate some of my fav local bir dishes, once I can knock out the classics time after time. Some of the special dishes here have crushed chillies/coriander seed etc tempered in oil poured over the dish, they are the business!! There is no end game really, now that I know the road
ELW
ELW - would love to see you post some recipes on here, especially some of these special dishes!
Some of the special dishes here have crushed chillies/coriander seed etc tempered in oil poured over the dish, they are the business!!
Seconding Ian S' opinion in another thread, are we likely to see the written ingredients / technique for the Roshney. I've never come across that dish before but it does look and sound delicious!!
Next on the to do list if so ;)
but still feel there is a missing element to my curries
Salt, that's a very interesting point... I too believe this is critical for the right balance.Glad to hear you are still singeing well Jeera;). I haven't done so since my epic moment on Saturday. So i'm off into the kitchen to see if i can repeat the performance. I intend to try and take the singe a little bit further plus add a couple of pinches of salt which we didn't do at Zaal's. I also have half dozen chilli chopped ready to go in as well ;D Hopefully, all will go well ::) . If i can crack this singeing on a regular basis, for me it's about base refinement and tweeking or at least a little experimentation followed by the mix powder, although i have yet to try Az's mix :-\
I used the Ashoka base in my singed AZ method curries and it definately was BIR spec (I'm a glasgow curry lover). The ashoka base has LOTS of salt... in fact I reduce the amount of salt in the base by 25% as I find it too much in the final dish.
Therefore with no added salt to the final dish, maybe this make this combo works that little bit better. It definately works for me and my experiments going forwards will be about tweaking mix powders/garamasalas.
I honestly believe that I singe the spices, as being described, in previous postsHi haldi, if I compare, on paper a homecooked to a bir curry, it looks like every element of the bir process is set up for mass production, (mix powder as opposed to differing amounts of spices, pre cooked meat, garlic & ginger mixed together in a paste etc) After that initial stage of cooking a bir curry, it & the homecooked version more or less become the same thing, a boiling mixture, you could chuck anything you like in after that, even a boiled egg!. For example The addition of say,Ashoka Banjarra paste, which is just stirred in after the gravy doesn't make it bir, it makes it Ashoka.
I have been doing this for some time
but still feel there is a missing element to my curries
If singing the spices, turns a curry to BIR standard, then homestyle curries would taste the same
Homestyle employs similar spice frying methods
I have many Asian friends who give me curries, and I can assure you, that homestyle is not the same
Extremely good, but not the same
Singing is important, but clearly not the only factor in making a takeaway curry
Salt, that's a very interesting point... I too believe this is critical for the right balance.
I used the Ashoka base in my singed AZ method curries and it definately was BIR spec (I'm a glasgow curry lover). The ashoka base has LOTS of salt... in fact I reduce the amount of salt in the base by 25% as I find it too much in the final dish.
Therefore with no added salt to the final dish, maybe this make this combo works that little bit better. It definately works for me and my experiments going forwards will be about tweaking mix powders/garamasalas.
I did make the mistake of introducing the spice to the pan and singeing it without the tomato paste. Of course when i realised i was straight in with the paste and a very quick stir and in with the gravy. I went in to panic mode when i realised that i'd omitted the paste with the spice mix and chilli powder >:(.
@curryhell.Don't be mate. If you look at the video of me doing my phall, paste goes in with the spices. If you look at the vid of Solarsplace doing the vindaloo, its the same sequence as ELW uses. Both will achieve singeing but the flavours will be different. Hope this puts your mind at rest ;)
So you normally add the tom paste and spices at the same time and then set about singeing?
I've been reading other posts on here that state:''adding the spices first for the initial singe, then in with the tom paste, quick stir and then quench with gravy.
I know everyone has their own way of doing things,but i'm a little confused,
i'm sure reading back,ELW said the only way he can achieve that bir taste is to first add the spices ,singe,then add tom paste,stir,then gravy.
I'm very confused :-\
Are you cooking on a big gas burner or electric hob, curryhell? I ask, because when using my (ceramic) hob, which takes longer to get up to (and maintain) high heat, I tend to add the tomato paste after I put the spices in and bring them up to temp. Otherwise I find that the addition of cold tomato paste brings the pan temp down and makes it harder to get that essential 'singeing'. Once the spices are foaming nicely in goes the tom paste.I'm cooking on a conventional electric hob. The singeing can be done with the spices alone and further when adding the puree before adding the gravy. Boil the water away in the puree and you'll end up singeing the paste and spice again which is what happens in Solarplaces vindaloo video;D. In the phall video the singeing is done with spice and puree together. Liquid in the paste evaporated, singed and then quenched. Each method must produce a different flavour which i nearly got to try out tonight if only i'd have been brave enough on the second singe of the tomato and singed spices :(
I guess it's different for everyone depending on what equipment they're using, which I'm sure is one of the contributing factors to our varying levels of success at home.this is so true. We all have a different cooking environment. We need to tweak things / timings a little to suit this. Again, its all about the amount of practice one gets.
I remember someone describing cooking as nothing more than the application of controlled heat to plant and animal matter.Yes, it's as simple as that ;D ;D - i wish ::)
There's no doubting that "controlled heat" plays a crucial role in BIR, but boy, learning to control it consistently ain't easy, and that's a fact...The secret ;D ;D
great thread . this could on for another 20 pages I hope . I think it depends on what heat your cooking at and the timing. And of course singeing so trail and error . So a big pot of gravey,spices and a bin start from burnt and work your way down . thats my planYour'e a quick learner Michael. You've learnt in one day what some of us have been trying to crack for 20 plus years ;D ;D It took this thread to make many realise in spite of it already having been mentioned :(. Some of us are just naturally slow :D. It's not about the heat you cook at. That will govern how quickly your dish is cooked. Singeing will occur at a specific temperature. On a low heat it may take 3 mins for it to happen. On a high temp obviously it will happen a lot quicker. Decide on your heat settings and stick with them. Then just practice. If you vary the temps there'll be more going in the bin as you keep introducing a variable. Set your stall out, decide on what's going in the pan, I would suggest adding spice and tomato paste together, decide on the temperature and then it's all about getting the timing right which requires being brave. Good luck. Keep us posted on your results.
I remember someone describing cooking as nothing more than the application of controlled heat to plant and animal matter.
We all have a different cooking environment. We need to tweak things / timings a little to suit this. Again, its all about the amount of practice one gets.
Just been looking through some dipurajas videos on youtube and interestingly on the biriani video when he adds mixed powder before adding the rice he says "make sure you burn the spices"
Wish this was emphasised years ago >:( >:(
...she has things altogether hotter, for longer, and stirs everthing a lot less frequently than I have ever done. Hard to define, I know, but she goes beyond the stage where I think things might be burning and she doesnt bat an eyelid. The end result speaks (smells?) for itself :P
I have tried it myself, but only with some of her simpler, but nonetheless delightful recipes, not containing curry powder or any other significant quantity of spices (bar copious amounts of chilli powder). Rather unsurprisingly, these had very little of "the smell" but still tasted fabulous. So, either I failed to reproduce her technique,or it is the "fusing" of the curry powder that creates "the smell".
I brought my 12 year old Battered Ali pan out of retirement last night, it fits like a glove and helped me create a Chicken Nihari and a Rezala. Bloody marvelous.
Hi Chaps
Sorry for the delay, just so busy atm. Just uploaded JB cooking his Bhuna in the videos section.
Thanks
Hi Mark & EveryoneLook forward to it Russ. I'm sure we'll be able to piece things together which videos it relates to. This may just confirm a few things for me on some of the Zaal stuff where my memory fails me ??? :-\
It is really nice to hear that you are enjoying the videos and getting benefit from them :)
There is some more content on film, unfortunately its mainly bits and pieces without a real beginning or end, such as parts of making the base gravy, red sauce, tikka and things like that.
I will try and upload this pick and mix compilation in the next few days, but everyone needs to remember that a lot of it won't be complete scenes, but maybe a few tips and tricks can be picked up from it?
Cheers
Hi Mark & Everyone
It is really nice to hear that you are enjoying the videos and getting benefit from them :)
There is some more content on film, unfortunately its mainly bits and pieces without a real beginning or end, such as parts of making the base gravy, red sauce, tikka and things like that.
I will try and upload this pick and mix compilation in the next few days, but everyone needs to remember that a lot of it won't be complete scenes, but maybe a few tips and tricks can be picked up from it?
Cheers
I believe there are ways of downloading YouTube videos and importing into editing software so would be happy to spend some time exploring possibilities.
There was a bit of concern as to whether the spices were gonna burn as opposed to singe, but singe they did and the result was delicious :)That risk is present every time i get the pan out ;D ;D . Maybe given time and a lot lot more practice the consistency of results will come, hopefully ::)
Congratulations mate. Any chance of posting the recipe W and a pic maybeHi CH, no pics unfortunately as it looked pretty much like the others i make other than the taste was better.
I believe there are ways of downloading YouTube videos and importing into editing software so would be happy to spend some time exploring possibilities.
Hi natterjak
I use this free website to download from YouTube http://keepvid.com (http://keepvid.com)/
No need to buy the keepvid program, the free option works a treat ;)
Regards
George
Just a big thanks to the "fleet 5" for posting all the info from the zaal experience on here ;). I have just made my best chicken tikka jalfrezi to date with this cooking technique. Whilst i appreciate the necessary info has been on this forum all along, the emphasis on the spice cooking has just nailed it for me :) There was a bit of concern as to whether the spices were gonna burn as opposed to singe, but singe they did and the result was delicious :)
I even got a few flames whipping up the edge of the pan :o
Thanks again
W
Congratulations mate. Any chance of posting the recipe W and a pic maybeHi CH, no pics unfortunately as it looked pretty much like the others i make other than the taste was better.
Regarding recipe, chefspoon veg oil, i had some premade Zaal base (apart from indian bay, haven't tracked any down yet :'()
Nice one Whandsy, good to see someone getting tangible results from their efforts.Congratulations mate. Any chance of posting the recipe W and a pic maybeHi CH, no pics unfortunately as it looked pretty much like the others i make other than the taste was better.
Regarding recipe, chefspoon veg oil, i had some premade Zaal base (apart from indian bay, haven't tracked any down yet :'(), mixed powder was premade that i have from a takeaway, however i periodically make small amounts of others on here and they all seem to give similar results (imo). Watered down tom puree with a touch of tandoori masala in it, methi, deggi mirch, salt, precooked onion, homemade g/g blended with water and oil, coriander, precooked chicken tikka, finger chillis and half a tomato. Sprinkled with a pinch of jalpur GM a la curry2go at the end ;)
Happy days :)
W
Congratulations mate. Any chance of posting the recipe W and a pic maybeHi CH, no pics unfortunately as it looked pretty much like the others i make other than the taste was better.
Regarding recipe, chefspoon veg oil, i had some premade Zaal base (apart from indian bay, haven't tracked any down yet :'()
Martinvic may still have some he could sell on - he bought a big batch on eBay and sold a few to me. If you're really stuck let me know and I'll split the small supply I have and post you some.
I have found that using a domestic gas cooker still does the bizzo...
So curry fans please don?t go off on the tangent and starting detailed discussion threads about the Megawatt output of burners etc?
I'll speak to Az and see if he's up for running another one, I'm sure he will. I'll see if I can get some dates sorted but it will probably have to be either 25th March or 15th April.
I'll ask about an advanced course too for those who just want to cook main dishes.
Hi Chris
If Az is willing to do some kind of main & sides course please can you put me on the list.
Thanks again for making any of this possible!
Regards
I'd love a chance of going . If your short let me know
Good one
Anybody else short ?
Hi Solarsplace,
Just thought I'd check in about the remaining video footage from the Zaal trip to see how it might be going.
I think from memory CH thought it would be a good idea as well to put it up so that we could glean any other bits that might help us a long as well.
Even in unedited format would be great to watch through.
Cheers,
Mark
Keep us posted on your findings Natterjak. See if you can find out anything about the lessons they offer, although i couldn't find anything on the website itself :-\ Maybe i was missing something :(
Good work DP! You're a one for the YouTube searches eh? Not for the first time I'm glad that you've shared what you uncovered. 8)
I might get myself down there and order a takeaway while doing a recce. It's all of about 3 miles from me! ;D
Missed the boat on that one, but for a tenner I'd be well up for it if they plan on doing another. We could hijack it for a CRO cook-off!
Missed the boat on that one, but for a tenner I'd be well up for it if they plan on doing another. We could hijack it for a CRO cook-off!Now there's a thought ::)
Recce completed! I'll post an account of an interesting trip to Zaman restaurant in a new thread..... ;)I'm all ears Chris :o :-\
Nice work Chris. A memorable day and a turning point for me