Curry Recipes Online
Beginners Guide => Hints, Tips, Methods and so on.. => Topic started by: DalPuri on January 20, 2012, 06:04 PM
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Firstly, i want to say that i never knew Kris Dhillon posted on this site until yesterday. i thought she had only posted on the other forum. :o
Anyway,
it was from looking at the growing methi thread and reading Kris' posts that started my browsing mission. I've read through the posts about MSG and All Purpose Seasoning and i think i'll be experimenting with these in the near future. ;)
I checked out a couple of vids just to see at what stage people were adding it, as opinions are mixed. Jury is still out on that one. ::)
In one of the videos, they mention Shiitake mushrooms as having a high glutamate content and are used as a natural alternative to Monosodium glutamate.
Hmmmm, ok. So what if i dried some Shiitake Mushrooms and powdered them? i thought.
Discovery of shiitake powder opens chef's eyes
August 22, 2010|By Eric Gower
Many years ago I tossed a few whole dried shiitake mushrooms into my blender, just to see what would happen. What happened completely changed the way I cook.
I discovered that finely pulverized shiitake powder can radically improve most home cooking. It adds a tremendous amount of flavor and umami (savory goodness) to everything. I now always have a tin of finely ground shiitake near the stove, right next to the salt and pepper. It's become that basic.
The holy grail of cooking for me is that kind of serendipity: discovering new ways to make beautiful food with very little additional effort, either through a new technique or a new ingredient.
Dried shiitake mushrooms are probably not a new ingredient for most Bay Area cooks; many Asian cooking traditions make full use of their meaty, smoky flavors by rehydrating them in water and tossing them - and, often, their cooking liquid - into stir-fries and other dishes.
Looks like someone has beaten me to it :D
Here's some more interesting info.
http://www.foodingredientsfirst.com/videos/Jan-Klerken.html (http://www.foodingredientsfirst.com/videos/Jan-Klerken.html)
http://www.umamiinfo.com/2011/03/umami-rich-food-vegetables.php/ (http://www.umamiinfo.com/2011/03/umami-rich-food-vegetables.php/)
Cheers, Frank. ;)
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Firstly, i want to say that i never knew Kris Dhillon posted on this site until yesterday. i thought she had only posted on the other forum. :o
Anyway,
it was from looking at the growing methi thread and reading Kris' posts that started my browsing mission. I've read through the posts about MSG and All Purpose Seasoning and i think i'll be experimenting with these in the near future. ;)
I checked out a couple of vids just to see at what stage people were adding it, as opinions are mixed. Jury is still out on that one. ::)
In one of the videos, they mention Shiitake mushrooms as having a high glutamate content and are used as a natural alternative to Monosodium glutamate.
Hmmmm, ok. So what if i dried some Shiitake Mushrooms and powdered them? i thought.
Discovery of shiitake powder opens chef's eyes
August 22, 2010|By Eric Gower
Many years ago I tossed a few whole dried shiitake mushrooms into my blender, just to see what would happen. What happened completely changed the way I cook.
I discovered that finely pulverized shiitake powder can radically improve most home cooking. It adds a tremendous amount of flavor and umami (savory goodness) to everything. I now always have a tin of finely ground shiitake near the stove, right next to the salt and pepper. It's become that basic.
The holy grail of cooking for me is that kind of serendipity: discovering new ways to make beautiful food with very little additional effort, either through a new technique or a new ingredient.
Dried shiitake mushrooms are probably not a new ingredient for most Bay Area cooks; many Asian cooking traditions make full use of their meaty, smoky flavors by rehydrating them in water and tossing them - and, often, their cooking liquid - into stir-fries and other dishes.
Looks like someone has beaten me to it :D
Here's some more interesting info.
http://www.foodingredientsfirst.com/videos/Jan-Klerken.html (http://www.foodingredientsfirst.com/videos/Jan-Klerken.html)
http://www.umamiinfo.com/2011/03/umami-rich-food-vegetables.php/ (http://www.umamiinfo.com/2011/03/umami-rich-food-vegetables.php/)
Cheers, Frank. ;)
Hi Dalpuri, I use APS in place of salt now & again(rajah is 70% salt). The uncomfortable truth about msg, is that it works a treat !! The problems associated with it & reputations is normally down to it's use in chinese fast food, which can give me stomach pains, due to the large amounts used in dishes like chow mein or the sticky Peking sauce. Apparently the chemical formula of msg is no different than glutamic acid, when isolated & stablised with salt which is fairly controversial. I think a forum member uses it it their base sauce if in remember correctly, I haven't tried that..Parmesan cheese has the highest glutamate content afaik
Regards
ELW
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I remember reading that GM is looked on as natural flavour enhancer, which is added at the end of cooking..maybe :-\
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Anyone know how a flavour enhancer works ???????????????? ::)
If I have an apple or garlic or a beer and put enhancer on it it has more flavour or taste ???
Or is a it another big commercial con ??
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Anyone know how a flavour enhancer works ???????????????? ::)
MSG is probably one of the best known flavour enhancers and it cons your taste buds into thinking something is tastier than it actually is. It kind of amplifies the flavour - particularly with meat. So by using MSG, you can actually get away with lower quality meat, then if you wern't using it.
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Anyone know how a flavour enhancer works ???????????????? ::)
MSG is probably one of the best known flavour enhancers and it cons your taste buds into thinking something is tastier than it actually is. It kind of amplifies the flavour - particularly with meat. So by using MSG, you can actually get away with lower quality meat, then if you wern't using it.
or even less meat, you can see the attraction concerning profit margins
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I always use APS in my curries (and Bases) instead of salt.
I add it with the first ladle of base, not with the other spices, as I'm sure I read somewhere it shouldn't be heavily fried for some reason.
Martin
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salt
herbs
oil
garlic
pepper
vegetables
fruit juices, citric and other
alcohol
msg
liquid smoke
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I think all the horror stories associated with MSG date back to the eraly days of take away food and the western population becoming accustomed to this in their diet.
You will find MSG or a similar flavour enhancer in a lot of snacks and proccessed foods these days that most people have no problem with.
I use MSG in chinese cooking and the only ill affect I find is sometimes i'm more thirsty then normal after eating.
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Anyone know how a flavour enhancer works ???????????????? ::)
Yes, sort of... in the case of "meatiness" and monosodium L-glutamate (MSG) there is a synergistic relationship with inosene monophosphate (IMP) that results in an intensifying of meaty flavour perception, but the mechanisms behind this aren't too well understood (flavour science is quite a complicated area). MSG doesn't have much of a taste on it's own but when combined with IMP in equal mesaures it tastes about 20 times stronger.
In muscle tisssue, chemical energy is present as a molecule called adenosine triphosphate or ATP.
After death the ATP degrades by losing a phosphate molecule to become adenosine di-phosphate or ADP - this in turn loses another phosphate to become adenosine mono-phosphate or AMP.
The AMP molecule breaks down further by losing an H2O and NH3 resulting in the formation of the IMP molecule. Basically it is the interplay between the MSG/IMP that is responsible for promoting the perception of meatiness.
With me so far? Phew :o
In adddition, coooking meat also leads to the formation of compounds such as methyl furanolone as a product of heating IMP and other ribonucleotides and these also have a pronounced meaty odour and contribute to the sensation of meatiness.
Glutamate and IMP are present in lots of foods but some have more than others - for example parmesan can typically contain about 1200mg per 100g of MSG and tomato juice about 260mg per 100g - this is the basis for their use in bolognese type sauces. Typically beef and pork contain about the same levels of IMP but beef contains roughly twice the level of MSG.
Sorry it's a bit heavy going - but you did ask ;D
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Good to see some real science here, Piscator -- welcome !
** Phil.
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Brilliant Piscator. :)
Perhaps you could enlighten us on the marination of chicken using either yogurt or lemon juice ;)
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Brilliant Piscator. :)
Perhaps you could enlighten us on the marination of chicken using either yogurt or lemon juice ;)
To understand the process of marinating meat properly you need to understand a bit about the composition and structure of muscle, which is a pretty meaty topic ;D (see what I did there) involving quite a bit of complex biochemistry.
In as simple terms as I can think to use - to imagine what muscle structure looks like, take both hands and hold them out in front of you with your palms facing you.
Now interlace your fingers so that your fingertips reach the second knuckle - this represents the muscle fibres. Muscles contract or relax by sliding the filaments - slide your interlaced fingers back and forth and you'll get the idea. This process requires energy - the ATP stuff I mentioned previously (see how this is coming together now?).
When an animal is slaughtered the supply of ATP runs out (how long this takes depends on certain reserves the animal had) - this results in the sliding filaments locking together and becoming fixed... normally known as rigor mortis. If you look at your interlaced fingers you will see that where they overlap the fibres are more dense and therefore the meat here is tougher. Ageing meat allows the fibres in the less dense bands to break down and weaken making the meat easier the shear in that region and therfore more tender.
As the ATP in the muscle runs out the pH in the meat drops to about 5.0.
Most natural yoghurt cultures these days are self limiting at a pH of about 4.3 - 4.5, whereas if you went back to the 80's, yoghurt cultures weren't selected for self limiting strains in the same way and tended to be slightly more acidic and tangy, probably tending to run closer to 3.8 - 4.0 or slightly lower depending on the fermentation conditions used.
Freshly squeezed lemon juice has a much lower pH at around 2.0.
Both yoghurt and lemon juice work in the same way by using their acidic pH to break some of the cross links and open up the fibre structure and let the marinade into the meat. Lemon juice needs less time to do the job than yoghurt as it is much more acidic but both essentially do the same thing to the meat.
I'm not getting drawn into any debates, just explaining what is happening ;)
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For perhaps the first time ever, I now think that this forum would benefit from a "thank you" button ...
** Phil.
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Good evening from a fellow Piscator!
I agree with Phil's comment there, that is very interesting stuff! May I ask, do you have a professional food science background or is that info that you've researched online etc? I am in no way questioning the accuracy of what you say btw I'm just interested.
Regards
Mike
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I wish I hadn't asked now - my head hurts.
But, as Phil and Mike- say ..... thanks :)
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Hi Mike,
Yes - trained as a food scientist with just over 20 years in the industry working with a wide range of foods including red meat (abattoir, cutting and retail), dairy (milk, cheeses, butter, ice-cream, yoghurt, millkshake and various others), fruit and beverages.
Nice avatar 8)
Sorry Garp :o
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Wow! Excellent!..and thanks... Please keep contributing! 8)
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Interesting
thanks P
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See also today's Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/ng-interactive/2016/may/23/neuro-cuisine-exploring-the-science-of-flavour-tamal-ray?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=173725&subid=7931718&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2) on "Neuro-cuisine (http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/ng-interactive/2016/may/23/neuro-cuisine-exploring-the-science-of-flavour-tamal-ray?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=173725&subid=7931718&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2)
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It's certainly very interesting Phil. It mentions that it is thought 80% of flavour detected being due to smell. I've always wondered if the "missing 5%" people speak of was due to this...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olfactory_fatigue
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It's certainly very interesting Phil. It mentions that it is thought 80% of flavour detected being due to smell. I've always wondered if the "missing 5%" people speak of was due to this...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olfactory_fatigue
I think that could well be a very significant part of the answer.
** Phil.