Curry Recipes Online
Supplementary Recipes (Curry Powders, Curry Paste, Restaurant Spice Mixes) => Supplementary Recipes Chat => Topic started by: Mark J on February 21, 2006, 10:27 PM
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Hi Folks,
Over the last couple of weeks Ive been thinking about what could be the source of the taste we seek in BIR curries. To my mind it came down to 2 options. First option is the preparation/cooking of garlic/ginger and most of all onions I think this is probably down to technique and experience, the other option is the spiced oil.
If the strong smell/taste we seek is tied to the oil then I think we have no chance of reproducing this, reason being is this strong taste is most likely due to the constant reclaiming of oil from curry gravy and curries of which the BIRs will cook several hundred during the course of a week, there's no way we can replicate this.
To put this theory to the test I have tonight obtained a sample of spiced oil from my local BIR, I go to this place every week and have done for a few years. They are very friendly and were more than happy to provide this sample for me (pictures attached below)
I will cook with this oil this weekend and to my mind this will put to bed one of these theories, if I can produce a dish to their taste then it must be down to their oil.
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Pics
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Looks good to me Mark, and I know that this is right! I have been professing this for a long, long time! It is the only explanation, we have all done the gravies, different ones and on the whole they work. It's down to the oil. I have experimented enough with oil, but, not on the same scale as bir's. I hope this works out and it will cofirm what I have been saying for a long time.
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That oil looks the business!
This is the final piece of the puzzle
Well done Mark
I can't wait for you to cook with it!
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This may also be all we need to add to any of our recipes & make them all work.
Which would be very nice as we could then simplify/adapt them.
Looking forward to your post Mark.
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Ill cook with it on Saturday, cant wait ;D
The sad fact is, if this is the key then they have given me about a months worth of oil, so all I will need to do is keep asking them each month for a new supply 8)
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If the Oil is the actual ingredient we are all looking for then at least this will give us all a direction in our quest & then its just down to what Spices,what temperature & length of time to cook the Oil.
I have cooked oil without any ingredients in it for 15 on medium/high once,prior to making a Curry & the end result was that it made the the curry very sweet,which is one of the key factors i think we are all looking for.
My main objective is that very savory smell that is also so strong it becomes part of the taste of the Curry that emanates from a lot of bir Curries.
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Sorry to be a bit negative on this, but Mrs B and myself have been using our favourite takeaways old oil drained from our food for some time now. The oil looks very similar to the pictures of Mark Js and also smells fantastic.
There is no doubt it adds a fanastic something to any dish we have used it in, but I fear that this is not the missing link, or at least not on its own!
I really really hope that this works and proves me wrong though!!
Best of luck.
Broon
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Im not so sure that it makes "the" difference myself, i've re-used oil a few times and it never made that much of a difference to my currys. I think this is also something that is restaurant dependant, so do some don't some use ghee etc etc..
I've not used re-used oil from a takeaway though but I might well try it.
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I think we can all make a good base
There are lots of good ones on this site
But the oil is very special from my local takeaway
Sometimes it is more intense than other days
But the whole aroma of the meal, it's essence, is in it
If you get a drip, on the table, it will make the whole room smell the next day
I think this oil is created by temperature, volume of ingredients and time cooked
I don't think cooking a bulb of pureed garlic in half an inch of oil, will give the same result as cooking six bulbs in 3 litres of oil
I think if you tasted the oil, from both, the six bulb oil would have a different flavour
I am sure, if this were not so, someone would have arrived at the perfect restaurant curry by now.
Maybe this is why Darth is so pleased with his results
He cooks in very large quantities
Unfortunately I can't use those amounts on my cooker (and I don't have space to freeze that much either)
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I have definitely noticed all my Curries are good as a result of cooking in BULK !!! ;D
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OK Ive kicked this off now, on opening the jar of oil the smell is incredible, it has a unique smell that is identical to that of the food from the restaurant it came from, my hopes are high! Its way more powerful than any spiced oil Ive created myself.
Im going to cook a base and then chicken achar and chicken patia.
Ive got the base going, im using this one : http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=723.msg7141#msg7141 the only change I have made to this is that I browned the ginger/garlic puree before addint the rest of the ingredients.
This has taken all of the oil so I will have to reclaim some before pureeing to cook with, Ill let you know how I get on.
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Chicken Achar recipe from here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=602.msg5563#msg5563
Pathia recipe from here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=122.0
For the pre cooked onions Im going to try simmering them with a little salt and turmeric rather then pre frying
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Hmm mixed results, I think the bottom line is it wasnt the same as my local although it had a taste that was similar and yes I think it was the taste, trouble is Ive been cooking all afternoon and evening and I just cant tell ???
I made a mistake with the patia in that I added too much chilli (my wife couldnt eat it), although the achar was very good. Also I didnt water the base down enough so it was very thick
I saved some of the pathia and will heat it up this morning to try it in the cold light of day.
I have plenty of base left and some of the oil so my next experiment will be to get my wife to cook the curry!
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Never mind Mark
It drives you mad, doesn't it?
If any restaurant chefs, read these pages, they surely must be very amused.
The lengths we go to, and such determination
I hope, with Heidi's help, we will be able to move on again
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Ive just eaten whats left of the pathia and apart from being too hot it was fantastic, it had the taste (the unique taste that is pretty much in everything in my local restaurant) but also it had a home cooked quality.
Ive got plenty of base left so I will be trying this again definately next weekend, Ill try and cook in the morning though (I think yesterday I just got too spiced/cooked out to appreciate the final dishes, I also didnt leave the base overnight). If I can I will cook just chicken pathia and I will also get a chicken pathia from my local and do a side by side comparison (my pathia will be using their oil and their recipe so I guess thats about as good a comparison as you can do ;D)
On another note the precooked onions in water not oil seemed to work very well, its amazing how much onion you need, 1 medium onion precooked is only good for 1 portion of final dish.
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So now we need to know how to make the right Spiced Oil aaaa !!! Another quest for us me thinks ;D.
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I think I need to do some more experiments but I guess my feeling at this stage is the taste is due to the spiced oil and the chefs ability.
If it is the spiced oil then its a bit depressing because its essentially impossible to recreate at home (assuming that volume of dishes cooked comes into the equation)
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Mark what about cooking the Oil on its own for a while with Spices (which ones I'll have to determing with some experimentation).
I have done this in the past with some good results when it comes to making the Curry sweeter & giving a good flavor...but not the elusive smell/taste i crave,although i have found various spices in my Curries & perhaps these are left whole in the Oil then each individual portion is re-cooked in the said Oil mmmmm gives one many new ideas, don't you think people ?
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I think that would be a good substitute, I remember when Ghanna was on this board she gave a recipe for spiced oil.
CQ, I know you've been the biggest exponent of spiced oil on the forum, how do you find doing this at home? Do you find it strong enough, how often do you reclaim it, off the top of the gravy or final dishes?
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Hi Mark, Well done with your experiments, although I knew it would come up trumps for you! Cooking a curry the night before you eat it is always the way to go too as Iit improves in taste ten times over. With regard to the spiced oil, I usually reclaim it once or may twice a week. I usually make a prawn pathia (phall hot), a prawn dupiaza (vindaloo hot) and a tarka dhal and maybe bombay potatoes. I tend to cook these dishes most of the time as they area our faves. The oil initially takes on flavours when it is cooked when gravy is made and then will only take on other flavours from dishes that you cook with it. So, ten different people can re-use oil and then reclaim it, but, they will be all very different to each others depending on dishes they have produced with it. Do you see what I am getting at? It is amazing when you start first cooking a dish when you use the spiced oil though isn't it?
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Hi Curryqueen,
do you think your curries have the complete taste now?
Are they the same as your local takeaway?
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It is amazing when you start first cooking a dish when you use the spiced oil though isn't it??
Absolutely, with this stuff it smelt just like my local BIR does even before hitting the pan, cant wait for next weekend now, I think cooking the curry the day before will results in a far better experience
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Can anyone please post some methods & recipes for making Spiced Oil to give me/us a start on experimenting with this Oil.
Thanks .....DARTHPHALL.....
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You don't make spiced oil as such it is scooped from a completed base sauce and\or from completed dishes and can be added to each time something is made.
cK
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Hi Pete, Let's put it this way, my husband is and has always been very critical of my curries over the years. I don't have many complaints at all these days at all, in fact, "it's as good as" or "even better than a bir" are his comments. We do buy takeaways still sometimes and its so annoying when they mess it up when you know that you can do just as good as them and you have to pay for the disaster they have made.
The complete taste! That depends really on dishes you are making yourself. It's all down to the reclaimed oil from the dishes you make at home and then take back once cooked. I think everyones oil will probably be different to a certain degree depending on the dishes they make. They are complete for me because they have "that smell and aroma" that comes with takeaways. When you start making a curry with the oil, you have an instant fantastic aroma which fills the kitchen with anticipation of whats to come.
When you make your base gravy add about a pint or so of vegetable oil. Before blitzing skim as much off as possible and bottle it. Use this for starting your dish and then just take out a tablespoon or two and put back in bottle. Do this with each dish made. If the oil gets too intense then just add some vegetable oil to slacken it off.
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Hi Darth,
I reclaim it off the top of the curry gravy, you have to put quite a bit in to do this (500ml), as CQ says then reclaim it off the final dishes.
cheers
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Has anyone found a gravy base recipe where the oil comes off with the aroma of the BIR, i've used the oil loads of times but i never has that true alluring smell to it. dont get me wrong, it smells good but not like the real mc coy
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Hi peeps thanks for the replies, I've done it already via reclaiming from an Oily base gravy & found added depth of flavor but nothing close to the smell/taste I'm after.
What i meant was, is there was a different way around it ?
As i posted earlier by cooking various Spices & perhaps Ginger,Garlic & Green Chillies in the Oil & making an actual Spiced Oil,Also by this method of experimentation you could cook various types without wasting base gravy.Heat some Oil add some Spices cook it up see what smell/result you get then throw away & try another as i can see what you all mean by the smell/taste being very prominent in the Oil of the Take-away Curries & dishes.
Again i will mention this ONE MORE TIME as it may be relevant.
On several occasions i have had pockets of the desired smell/taste in my Curries I'm not 100% sure but it seems to happen when i use Green Chillies,does this mean the guy who told me 3 weeks ago the "smell is the cooked Green Chillies" was not lying ?
Is this how they get the heat without using so much Chillie powder ?
Cook them in the Oil then remove them ?
Has anyone tried this ?
Did it give any good results ?
This particular BIR tasted very much like my fave but more Oily & there were the tell tail Ginger strands so it is used after all !!
It does seem that all Ive been told so far is the truth although they all become guarded after one to many questions ;D
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John & Darth: When Ive reclaimed before it hasnt produced the same results as the oil I got from the BIR
Darth: Ive seen a number of bases with green chilli in them, I think green chilli is one of the essential tastes of a BIR
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Just a thought , since there are such varying flavors for both the base sauces and final dishes , does it not follow that the spiced oils will also have a multitude of tastes . It would therefore seem difficult to maintain a continuity of flavor as the underlying taste is constantly changing . However , I suppose if one stuck to one dish in order to just reclaim the oil , the flavor would be maintained .
CC :-\
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i've just come across a website that shows how to make a basic version of Spiced Oil.
Heres the site for anyone thats interested http://www.experimentalkitchen.org/article.php/2005040318292155
and heres the recipe they show:
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Infused oils are incredibly versatile, they can be used to replace plain oil in a favorite recipe or they can be used as a condiment on finished dishes.
This recipe can be easily halved, if you doubt your ability to use up a whole cup of infused oil.
1 cup canola oil
1 shallot, minced
1/4 cup curry powder
1/4 cup water
1. Add 1 tablespoon of oil and the shallot to a small saucepan. Heat over low to medium low heat until the shallot is translucent and soft. Do not brown the shallot (this is called "sweating".)
2. Add the curry and stir to combine. Cook for 1-2 minutes.
3. Add the water. Turn up heat and bring the water to a boil.
4. Reduce the heat and simmer gently until most of the water is gone, leaving a paste.
5. Remove from heat and stir in the rest of the oil.
6. Put into a lidded glass jar and leave at room temperature for a few hours, shaking the jar occasionally.
7. Strain through a coffee filter into a clean glass jar (leaving overnight if necessary to finish straining).
8. Keep refrigerated when not using.
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Hi,
Obviously this is an American recipe site. What's Canola Oil or it's equivalent over here, can't say I have seen it in my supermarkets? I guess Veg Oil would be similar. I wonder what curry powder they use?
Ray
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Again i will mention this ONE MORE TIME as it may be relevant.
On several occasions i have had pockets of the desired smell/taste in my Curries I'm not 100% sure but it seems to happen when i use Green Chillies,does this mean the guy who told me 3 weeks ago the "smell is the cooked Green Chillies" was not lying ?
Hi Darth
I had a bought curry last night
It was a georgous general "restaurant" flavour, like I can make, but with these "pockets" of the taste.
There must be something solid in it giving this flavour
The sauce wasn't hot, so if it is chilli, they must be deseeded
Maybe you don't use much
I don't always put fresh green chilli into my base, do you?
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I dont get any Green Chillies in my Take-away Curries (& i rarely put then in my own Curries) one Bir uses Chilli powder in their Phall & Vindalloo, which you can taste.
The other i think uses a concentrate as you cannot taste any Chilli powder at all in their Tindalloo (as hot as a Phall).
It is intriguing how I get pockets of the correct Smell/taste sometimes,one Bir told me that the smell is the cooked Green Chillies (this is the same one which you can taste Chiili powder in mmmm...lies on their part me thinks ?)
Does pureed Green Chillies give the taste ?
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I have on occasion roasted green chilies and a variety of other vegetables and then added them to a curry . This does impart s slightly smokey flavor to the more delicate dishes .
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I always use fresh green chillies when making my curries. My husband eats phall and I eat vindaloo/tindaloo! When making the hot ones if you use all chilli powder then the end result is horrible and all its fit for is throwing in the bin. I usually use loads of fresh chillies whole and chopped and a little chilli powder. As with green pepper in the base, chopped and whole green chillies gives that same aroma/smell to a curry! Plus with the spiced oil "voila"there you have it. Green chillies (not red) play a big part in the end dish. I couldn't do with out my whole chillies in my dupiaza.
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i must agree with Curry Queen too much Chili powder can make the Curry taste like.....Chili powder.I'm working on making hot spiced Oil this weekend :o
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Hi,
Obviously this is an American recipe site. What's Canola Oil or it's equivalent over here, can't say I have seen it in my supermarkets? I guess Veg Oil would be similar. I wonder what curry powder they use?
Ray
Canola is corn oil and our equivalent is Mazola (remember the 70's ads for that?), but I don't think it matters what veg oil you use. Canola is just the most commonly used oil in the US because they grow a LOT of corn!
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Canola is corn oil
No it's not!
Canola is derived from rape seed oil. It is called Canola because it is short for 'Canada Oil' where it ws invented. The trade name was a neccessity because it is made from GM rape seed and that wasn't sellable to the public.
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"NOOOOOOOOOOOO!"? ?
I think you'll enjoy the Star Wars Gangsta Rap flash movie, if you haven't seen it.? Most amusing!? :D
http://www.atomfilms.com/af/content/gangsta_rap
Anyway back on topic, for the first time I have a jar full of reclaimed oil that I'll be using tonight. I can't wait to try the results because the oil smells fantastic. I could drink it! A shame I'll be cooking a very mild curry because of the kids today, but it should still be nice enough.
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i've just come across a website that shows how to make a basic version of Spiced Oil.
Heres the site for anyone thats interested http://www.experimentalkitchen.org/article.php/2005040318292155 (http://www.experimentalkitchen.org/article.php/2005040318292155)
and heres the recipe they show:
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Infused oils are incredibly versatile, they can be used to replace plain oil in a favorite recipe or they can be used as a condiment on finished dishes.
This recipe can be easily halved, if you doubt your ability to use up a whole cup of infused oil.
1 cup canola oil
1 shallot, minced
1/4 cup curry powder
1/4 cup water
1. Add 1 tablespoon of oil and the shallot to a small saucepan. Heat over low to medium low heat until the shallot is translucent and soft. Do not brown the shallot (this is called "sweating".)
2. Add the curry and stir to combine. Cook for 1-2 minutes.
3. Add the water. Turn up heat and bring the water to a boil.
4. Reduce the heat and simmer gently until most of the water is gone, leaving a paste.
5. Remove from heat and stir in the rest of the oil.
6. Put into a lidded glass jar and leave at room temperature for a few hours, shaking the jar occasionally.
7. Strain through a coffee filter into a clean glass jar (leaving overnight if necessary to finish straining).
8. Keep refrigerated when not using.
Not a bad oil base, can I recommend the addition of garlic and fresh coriander w/ the onions.