Curry Recipes Online
Curry Base Recipes => Curry Sauce, Curry Base , Curry Gravy Recipes, Secret Curry Base => Topic started by: Aussie Mick on May 17, 2012, 03:02 PM
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G'day folks
I wanted to try a different base gravy yesterday and thought I would try the Taz base after reading so many good things. I was tempted to add some coriander or carrot, but I followed the recipe to the letter so I could compare. Now, i am still a realtive newbie to BIR and I was delighted with the visual result.
I have done a few CA and Chewy bases and they have all produced excellent results in the final curry dish.
But, I have never manged to get a good oil separation, only froth.
On the taz base, I got literally gallons (or so it seemed lol) of oil on the top of the sauce. It was a sight to behold. I forgot to take a picture in my excitement, but please believe me, there was LOADS of oil floating on the top of the gurabi.
Seeing as this was the first time that this has occured, i was unsure what to do with it. Should I spoon off the oil, or should I stir it back in and keep it in the sauce (I did the latter before splitting it up and freezing)
Thankf folks 8)
I had a quick "snack" of bhuna, before I foze it and it tasted very, very nice. ;D
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G'day Mick
I use a stick blender to mix it back in thoroughly and then it is evenly distributed amongst all your portions.
Hope this helps
Mick
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Hi Mick
Some chefs actually use this oil floating on the top of the base to start off their dishes. This also varies depending on how much oil the dish actually gives up or contains to begin with. The Taz base is a slightly unusal base as it does contain a high percentage of oil relative to many other base recipes on this site as it is designed to be used with a slightly different cooking technique.
In general (There may well be exceptions to the rule) unless the oil layer on the base is excessive (something may have gone wrong with measurements? ) it is usually intended that the oil is stirred back in to the base, as most of us here will then usually portion up the base and freeze it.
Hope that is of some help.
Thanks
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Mick
Have a good look at some of the Taz posts because the method is a little bit different than using other bases - you don't need to add oil at the start of the curry due to the high oil content. I've posted quite a few recipes which are adaptations for the Taz base so I hope you find something that suits your palate.
Steve
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Thanks fellas. Question has been answered. 8)
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But, I have never manged to get a good oil separation, only froth.
I wouldn't get fixated on getting oil separation in the base. It depends on how much oil is in it and how long you cook it for (and probably on several other things).
To my mind, it should generally be stirred back into the (any) base (because it carries flavour). Whether it separates, or not (and it often doesn't), does not influence the outcome (provided that it is otherwise cooked for long enough to adequately soften the onions and other vegetables). In my opinion.
In the Taz base, it should also be stirred back into the base because it is an intrinsic part of the subsequent curry cooking process, as I understand it.
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Hi Mick. I would personally stir it back in.
On this subject of oil separating from the base, it seems to me that although often discussed we don't seem to know why it separates, or why it might not separate or indeed how significant oil separation really is. CA expresses the view that it's not significant, others have previously stated the opposite but I'm unclear on what it is happening at that last stage of cooking which means the base is yielding oil. Would appreciate it if anyone has any insight? It's more than simply the evaporation of sufficient water to allow oil to no longer stay mixed in. I can say that without doubt through noticing how a base finished in the slow cooker (which has ultra low evaporation compared to hob boiling in a pan) will reach a tipping point where oil starts to rise and will then give up a surprising amount of oil upon further cooking.
One thing I have noticed is that when stiring a base which reaches this stage, there is significant sediment which can be dragged up from the bottom of the pan. So there must be chemistry involved here which (in my simplistic view) is leading the compounds in the base to clump together and fall out of suspension and presumably then the oil which was clinging to the smaller particles is free to rise. Well, I'm not a chemist (as you can see) but that is what I imagine is happening and if it is associated with a chemical change then it's a fair assumption that it could be taken to be a sign of the base being fully cooked (which I believe chewy has previously suggested).
It would be an interesting experiment to reserve some base sauce during the final cook, prior to oil rising. Then cook a curry with it to compare the result with base sauce cooked to the point of oil rising. Maybe I should try that next time I make some base.
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Not a bad idea NJ. It'll be interesting to hear about your findings.
I did a batch of CA's base yesterday, and I tried and tried to get separation, but gave up after about an hour of simmering with the lid on/lid off/dropping the froth back into the centre as on CBM video shows the chef doing. I got plenty of froth as usual but very little actual oil.
I'll be cooking up a batch of Chewys later in the week, so we'll see what happens there. We've got a poker night next weekend, and guess what we'll be etaing? LOL
I am going to do a bhuna with each of the base sauces and also buy one in from our local curry house (which is actually quite good) and do a blind taste test on people...should be interesting. ???
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Recently made a Zaal base and after about an hour into the second simmer (after blending) could see the oil starting to rise to the surface so turned off the gas.
What I actually did was set the gas to minimum and not off ::) so the base continued to simmer,after about another 1 1/2 hours I realised the gas was still on and looking at the base couldn't believe the amount of oil on the surface :o completely covering the top of the base in some depth.
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Mick, sounds like a good experiment and I hope no other random variations creep in to threaten the validity of your result. Emin-j after your well cooked base experience did you notice a kind of sediment at the bottom of the pan? I'm not sure I've read on here anyone else other than myself experiencing this but in my mind it's synonymous with the base reaching this "fully cooked" stage, when the oil rises. You will see it if you reach a long spoon down to the bottom of the pan and scoop what's there to the surface.
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Hey NJ
I noticed a sediment on the bottom of the pan when the Taz base seperated. I was actually tempted to pass it through a sieve (Chewy style) but I just stirred it all back in before splitting it up ready for freezing.
I cooked up a mushroom bhajee and a bhuna with it which I really enjoyed. I gave one portion to a mate to try, but he wasn't as keen on it as the CA/Chewy base, and as I said, I have never really managed to get a good oil separation on either of those bases..... Bloody chemistry eh? ::)
As CA said, it is not too important. All of the curries I've cooked up for friends have been with bases where the oil hasn't really seperated, and there have been zero complaints on the finished dish so far.
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Mick, sounds like a good experiment and I hope no other random variations creep in to threaten the validity of your result. Emin-j after your well cooked base experience did you notice a kind of sediment at the bottom of the pan?
I'm not sure I've read on here anyone else other than myself experiencing this but in my mind it's synonymous with the base reaching this "fully cooked" stage, when the oil rises. You will see it if you reach a long spoon down to the bottom of the pan and scoop what's there to the surface.
Hi NJ, yes there was some not expected sediment at the bottom of the cooking pot so I just re-blended the base.
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G'Day Mick
If you start off a base with 400ml or 500ml of oil your going to end up with an oily base, some chefs still like it like that.
If you want a healthier base gravy go with a 150ml to 200ml of oil.
If a base doesn't seem to be giving up its oil, its probably too thick, add some more water.
My answer is the same In your previous thread on the subject, i.e http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8161.msg71992#msg71992 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8161.msg71992#msg71992)
The second part of my recipe=
To finish it off, you can do it two ways, but either way you have to thin it down with plenty of water.
1. Quick way is to bring it back to a rolling boil with a lid on, important that you give it a stir
every few minutes as the onion sediment gathers on the outer edge at the bottom of your pan
and can overcook. The trick is that the oil will separate and be carried up with the steam. If you
check inside your lid, after say 15 mins, there should be little droplets of oil stuck to it. How long you boil varies,
but once I get a scum forming and an red/brown oil slick around the outer edge of the pan, I turn it down to a simmer and then off.
2. The slow way, is to bring it to the boil then turn down to a low heat simmer, give it a stir
now and then, until you get the scum/oil. ( always keep a lid on until you get the oil)
It doesn't really matter if it doesn't release loads of oil, as once you've scooped most of the scum off,
you should give the pan a good stir and the oil will mix back in.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/624fbf8565d4fa3b0e3cb60d309254ee.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#624fbf8565d4fa3b0e3cb60d309254ee.jpg)
Just as a point of reference
I've uploaded a video clip of how my finished curry base texture looks.
Not a great deal of oil in there, but I only use 200ml max in my recipe to start with.
And even this finished base could stand another litre of water.
http://www.southtyneside.com/sizzler/finishedbase.html (http://www.southtyneside.com/sizzler/finishedbase.html)
I think CA's Base recipe was cR0 formulated from information at the time and
doesn't call for a second cook after blending, so obviously there's going to be no oil separation there.
The Taste Test, once you've finished and you have some oil on top.
Take a ladle of base without oil and taste it two or three times, then take another ladle
of base with a bit oil in, mix it well and taste that, two or three times.
You should find quite a difference between the two, then you can decide whether to mix the oil in or not.
Here's some Scientific/Technical Jargon from Mr.google
All about density
1. Because oil has a lower density than water, it will tend to float on top of water, thus creating two distinct layers. Oil and water combine to form an immiscible layer, named because they don't mix together. Oil is also a non-polar molecule compared to water, which is a polar molecule, causing such a separation to occur.
Oil is a nonpolar liquid, meaning that its atoms don't attract the atoms of a polar substance, such as water.
Another explanation here:-
2. Water (H2O) is polar because its oxygen atom pulls on the electrons of its 2 hydrogen atoms, so it has a positive side and a negative side; it and other water molecules naturally attract each other.
On the other hand, oil is composed of hydrogen and carbon atoms. Hydrogen and carbon generally have the same electronegativity, meaning that they equally share the electrons. This lack of a positive side or a negative side makes oil nonpolar, so its atoms and water molecules don't attract each other.
Thus, oil does not dissolve in water but accumulates to form a layer above the water in a container. Since water has a density of 1 g/L (gram per liter) and oil floats on top of water, oil has a density of less than 1 g/L. If a nonpolar substance has a density of greater than 1 g/L, then it would accumulate at the bottom of the water to form a dense layer in the container.
cheers Chewy
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I think CA's Base recipe was cR0 formulated from information at the time and
doesn't call for a second cook after blending, so obviously there's going to be no oil separation there.
Not really Cr0 formulated, Chewy; rather a culmination of my learning and experiences (from all manner of sources) at that time.
For what it's worth, the oil does generally separate before blending (whatever that might mean) but, as you correctly say, I don't use a second cook, after blending, so it gets blended back into the base and stays there until the final dish is cooked.
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Yes CA! Thanks for that
I've noticed that each time I've cooked your base.
While the stick blender is doing it's stuff, there is always a red oily splodge at the top of the mixture. To me, that was the message to say that it was cooked.
Thanks Chewy for explaining things again. I'll be cooking up a batch of your base on Friday, so I'll be checking out the links as references along the way. I'll try to remember to take some pictures. 8)