Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: chewytikka on September 03, 2012, 01:17 AM
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"Old School" Taste, Alive and Kicking
In what seems to be a former life, I used to design for print and Restaurant Menus were a good earner.
Anyway can rarely be bothered these days, but I got a call from an old friend and customer, asking for help to do a menu redesign
So I've just spent a few nights in an "Old School" BIR TA kitchen. A total nostalgia trip
for me and I can assure Haldi the old school taste is alive and kicking here in South Shields.
On Thursday I watched Miah, the owner Chef do a 90 litre base, just like I watched him back in the 70's.
The last time I was in his kitchen was back in 95 and very little has changed, still the same old Chester range cooker and the massive stock pots
and amazingly he still uses the Mouli, Food Mill, Grinder - Hooray!!!!
(With reference to my first post on cR0 ) http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5349.msg52511#msg52511 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=5349.msg52511#msg52511)
He thought it was really odd, me asking him questions about how he was making his 'Garabi'
LOL ;D at one point he handed me the 3' paddle and said do you want a job or something, Mata Doz.
I then explained it was nice to see old style cooking. He said he didn't like new style or shortcuts, "I would loose customers if i changed",
No Handi Chicken here pointing to another massive stockpot bubbling away with at least 10 whole Chickens in it.
A bit later the Chickens were removed and stripped by the other cooks, then all of the remaining stock was skimmed then added to the Garabi.
Miah continued to cook this adding at least two tins of evaporated milk, a bit later the cooks brought the Garabi into the prep area,
where I was talking to his brother Dudu, going through and sorting out their new menu.
Then Dudu blended the garabi and then passed the whole lot through the Mouli... Pics below ;)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/91dcdc402c28886ee507996507ef17ac.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#91dcdc402c28886ee507996507ef17ac.jpg)
The Kit, with Mouli
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/03a5ae0dbf69d149c4f02af5e24f3312.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#03a5ae0dbf69d149c4f02af5e24f3312.jpg)
He gathers the oil with the initial blend and transfers it to the other pot first.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/2e3b852ba4224471fa39eb11ace8260e.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#2e3b852ba4224471fa39eb11ace8260e.jpg)
Then passes the Garabi through the Mouli
Anyhoo I'm a bit curried out as I've had three very spicy staff curries in as many days
and a (70s) Lamb Karahi with Shatkora and Uri, Take Away Tonight... Stuffed :P
Luvvly Jubbly.
cheers Chewy
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A bit later the Chickens were removed and stripped by the other cooks, then all of the remaining stock was skimmed then added to the Garabi.
What happens to the stripped flesh, Chewy ? Presumably it is not just discarded.
** Phil.
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Great report Chewy! ;D
The idea of boiling a chicken has been discussed before, or at the very least, using chicken stock of some variety in the base. Have you ever tried the chicken stock route? Does it produce better curries than your current base? It's not something I have tried, personally.
Couple more questions:
- What happens to the torn off chicken (as per Phil's question)?
- Was it just plain water the chickens were boiled in?
- Any use of commercial pastes? :P
- Were there there any other notable differences between their methods and other kitchens you've been in
- Manage to get any recipes for the final dishes? :P
Thanks for posting!
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Nice report, very interesting. Thanks!
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Discard the Chicken, of course not, are you kidding. :o
This is the old method of precooking Chicken.
What exactly went into this pot, didn't see, but usually Oil, G&G, Whole Garam Spices, Powdered Spices and topped up with water.
No commercial pastes
The restaurants I'm involved in today, all make a very mild neutral flavoured (90% onion) gravy base.
A bit like a blank canvas, relying more on the curry chef's pan skills to provide the tasty curry.
Like I said in My First Post thread, this is Old School and Maybe this is the taste you have in your memories,
which a lot seem to think is lost.
Alive and kicking here ;D
cheers Chewy
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Hi CT the Sanam Tandoori, http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8627.msg76627#msg76627, (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=8627.msg76627#msg76627,)
There curries are old school too, with many of the customers having eaten there when it first opened, around the late 70's-early 80's.
They make the base the same with chicken carcass, but haven't got the recipe yet, they also make a Lamb Nargis Balti which is divine.
Still trying to get some recipes off these chef's at the moment so it's quite a slow process but hopefully i will get some info soon.
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Nice report CT ;)
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Good one Chewy
Personally I love a chicken carcase to add to my gravey
I work on the basis other cuisines work at getting good stock or they wont get a good sauce
or a descent risotto
In my opinion :)
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Amazeballs chewy, dont spose you can pop back down there and film his old school madras recipe/method huh?
that would be double-amazeballs!
Cheers.
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Hi chewy
what is the restaurant called please?
Barry
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Thanks Guys.
Yes, I'll ask if I can video stuff, but some Curry Chef's don't like the idea of Youtube.
They have to proof/sign off their new menu anyway, so I'll pop in tonight.
Just one point, they weren't making a Chicken Stock out of carcases/bones like you would,
but actually boiling the whole Chickens in the pot.
Barry, I'll have to ask if I can name them on CR0 first. ;)
cheers Chewy
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Theres a couple of whole people from on here I would like to fit in that pot Chewy ;D ;D
sorry couldn't resist it
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Interesting post Chewy, and I personally add any frozen chicken stock I have to my base when I make one.
That aside, were there any vegetarian dishes on the menu, such as tarka dhal, and would they have this base included in the dish?
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This is totally brilliant! Somehow, I am going to cram a chicken into the Prestige for my next base gravy. Must add great flavour and depth to the mix. :)
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Discard the Chicken, of course not, are you kidding. :o
This is the old method of precooking Chicken.
No, absolutely not. I followed the link back to your initial message, in which you wrote :
They would fish out the overcooked chicken at the end, literally falling apart, leaving lots of bits and pieces behind.
from which it seemed to me as if they had cooked the chicken to the same point as I cook a carcase when I want to make chicken soup. And if you /do/ cook a chicken that far, the flesh is completelu unsuitable for making a curry, because it is, as you wrote " literally falling apart". So now I am confused. Just how long /is/ the chicken cooked for in the kitchen that you have just visited ? Is it just long enough to soften the flesh, and extract a little flavour, or is it cooked (as you wrote in your initial post) until it is " literally falling apart", in which case I can't see how they can then use it in a curry but it would certainly create a wonderful stock.
** Phil.
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Fantastic thread and pictures Chewy. I rememeber getting huge "shards" of chicken breast in the curries of old.
Hey Phil, I rememeber me dad used to boil up a chicken for hours on end and make a soup out of it with lentils, carrots, celery and onions, and it was delicous. He used to say he had an "old boiler". Ipresume that the bird was much older than your average chicken of today which is approximately 35 days old when it goes for slaughter.
Years and years ago, chicken was a real treat. You couldn't buy skinless chicken breast, or legs....you could only buy chicken, with the head on and the giblets inside..................them were't days.
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Hey Phil, I rememeber me dad used to boil up a chicken for hours on end and make a soup out of it with lentils, carrots, celery and onions, and it was delicous. He used to say he had an "old boiler". I presume that the bird was much older than your average chicken of today which is approximately 35 days old when it goes for slaughter.
Yes, that last statistic is somewhat horrific (as is the number of birds slaughtered each day just for use by KFC alone). But in China, soup is still made (in the countryside, at least), from aged hens, and that soup is out of this world. Incidentally, I wonder whether your dad did say "an old boiler" and not "an old broiler" : you can, in some places in the U.K., still get "broiler fowl" to this day.
Years and years ago, chicken was a real treat. You couldn't buy skinless chicken breast, or legs....you could only buy chicken, with the head on and the giblets inside..................them were't days.
Ah, giblets : where /do/ they go these days ? If you are lucky, you still get them in your Christmas turkey, but otherwise ? Gone the same way as "Home and Colonial", more's the pity. There is still a butcher's shop in Tunbridge Wells where you can buy them (separately, and quite cheaply) but why are they no longer inside the chickens we buy ? For me, they were an essential ingredient of the chicken gravy to accompany the roast, and were also a special treat to be eaten at the end of the meal ...
** Phil.
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Ah, giblets : where /do/ they go these days ? ... snip ... were also a special treat to be eaten at the end of the meal ...
** Phil.
Eeeeeew! :o nasty.
Fair enough if you like that sort of thing ;)
By my opinion is that is jolly unpleasant and should be only used as a challenge in those jungle get me out of here programs.
Cheers
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Eeeeeew! :o nasty. Fair enough if you like that sort of thing ;) By my opinion is that is jolly unpleasant and should be only used as a challenge in those jungle get me out of here programs.
SP, SP, have you never eaten chicken liver or chicken hearts ? They are truly delicious. The crop I do not rave about (that is something of an acquired taste, which I have never really acquired) but the neck is OK. If you've not tried the heart and liver, I really do recommend that you should. You must be a young stripling of a lad if you didn't have chicken giblets in/with your chicken when you were a boy ...
** Phil.
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I rememeber getting huge "shards" of chicken breast in the curries of old.
My first early experience (60s/70s) of Curry's Was chicken on the bone, normally Thighs, And that is what I miss with the modern curry's of today, The old style seemed to have so much more taste. or maybe that's just me dreaming ;D
Les
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My first early experience (60s/70s) of Curry's Was chicken on the bone, normally Thighs,dreaming ;D
Agreed : in those days there were two chargeable options -- "Off the bone", and "breast". Over time they became the default, and during the latter period of the transition it was sometimes quite difficult to insist on "on the bone" and "leg" ...
** Phil.
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You beat me to it Phil re: chicken necks.
Even as late as the early 1990's in a few of the curry/tandoori house in Rusholme, Manchester, the neck was included in your half of tandoori chicken. I wouldn't say it was the best bit, but I used to enjoy it. Not much meat there, but well worth the effort of finding it IMHO. 8)
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Chewytikka,
always top notch post - love em.
well pleased the old school are doing just fine. you're very lucky - i've not found in driving distance of warrington and the last one i knew in the midlands has now gone "upmarket".
i tried chicken carcase in the past (currytester's base) and think in hindsight i used too much. the evaporated milk is very nice to know - i use coconut milk in the rajver base (which i like) but will defo give it a try. it perhaps explains why i like evap milk in mains more than cream.
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Hey Jerry
I don't buy cream any more. I always use Carnation evaporated milk in Korma/Tikka masala.
Healthier (70% less fat than cream), tastier and more authentic IMHO! 8)
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Can still get on-the-bone meat in the curry at the Kabana in Manchester. Well worth a try if anyones in the area. Parking is a nightmare though and can end up costing more then your food. :P
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Aussie Mick,
love you're style. a further advantage for me is that i always make instant coffee by adding the milk 1st to the coffee ie before adding the off the boil water. switching the milk for carnation is probably not for all but it certainly takes it up a notch for me.
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love you're style. a further advantage for me is that i always make instant coffee by adding the milk 1st to the coffee ie before adding the off the boil water. switching the milk for carnation is probably not for all but it certainly takes it up a notch for me.
The Vietnamese use condensed milk to both colour and sweeten their coffee (ground and filtered, terribly slowly, while the receiving cup is kept warm in a bowl of hot water); I don't think much of their hot coffee, but their iced coffee (http://wanderingchopsticks.blogspot.co.uk/2007/03/ca-phe-sua-da-ca-phe-sua-nong.html#.UEjtgIetcf0) (c
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Hey Jerry
I don't buy cream any more. I always use Carnation evaporated milk in Korma/Tikka masala.
Healthier (70% less fat than cream), tastier and more authentic IMHO! 8)
Mick is that the stuff in a red tin with, funnily enough a white carnation of the front. I remember that as a kid being called Carnation cream. Loved the stuff. Wouldnt have thought of using that instead of cream in a curry.
Cheers
Steve
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That's the stuff Steve.
Get the evaporated and NOT the condensed milk.
Funnily enough Phil, a lot of Indians used Carnation milk in their tea as well. I'm a plumber, and I've worked in houses where I was offered a cup of tea, and in Asian households, it was always made with Carnation milkback in the 80's. I say that as most people don't even offer a cuppa these days.
It was very interesting, had a sort of ring of skin around the top as it cooled down. Definitley not my "cup of tea" :o
Goes great in a korma, tikka masala etc though
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Funnily enough Phil, a lot of Indians used Carnation milk in their tea as well. I'm a plumber, and I've worked in houses where I was offered a cup of tea, and in Asian households, it was always made with Carnation milkback in the 80's. I say that as most people don't even offer a cuppa these days.
First thing I do whenever anyone has work to do in or on my house. Never fails to be appreciated.
** Phil.
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Hi all yeah the taste is still alive in a few places here in Glasgow, i just visited a new restaurant that opened in charing cross, glasgow called the punjabi, the food was the best i have had and they also do on the bone aswell, if you ever happen to be up this way please check it out, below is their website
http://punjabicharingcross.co.uk/ (http://punjabicharingcross.co.uk/)
Garry
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Hi all yeah the taste is still alive in a few places here in Glasgow, i just visited a new restaurant that opened in charing cross, glasgow called the punjabi, the food was the best i have had and they also do on the bone aswell, if you ever happen to be up this way please check it out, below is their website
http://punjabicharingcross.co.uk/ (http://punjabicharingcross.co.uk/)
Garry
Glad to hear it, Garry. If 'the taste' was to ever die a death in Glasgow I shudder to think of the repurcussions!
I may be mistaken, but I have vague memories of visiting a restaurant called the Punjabi in Paisley Road from my time there in the early 80s, but then I have many equally vague memories from untold Glasgow curry houses from that period. (Bar the Shish Mahal, which I haunted regularly.)
Must get back up to Glasgow soon to rediscover what got me into this lark in the first place....
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Funnily enough Phil, a lot of Indians used Carnation milk in their tea as well. I'm a plumber, and I've worked in houses where I was offered a cup of tea, and in Asian households, it was always made with Carnation milkback in the 80's. I say that as most people don't even offer a cuppa these days.
First thing I do whenever anyone has work to do in or on my house. Never fails to be appreciated.
** Phil.
Me too Phil...it's just common courtesy as far as I'm concerned.
Sadly, these days people are too busy or just can't be bothered.
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Update:
Unfortunately I couldn't convince Miah to go on video with his cooking.
As he has too much competition in his area and doesn't like the idea of giving recipes away.
Talking about the old days of BIR. He said the main difference is the quality of the "Chicken"
Today their not natural and he wouldn't eat it himself. He still buys free range old Boilers for his own and family consumption.
Almost everything else is the same in quality with much more availability today, but at crazy inflated prices.
cheers Chewy