Quote from: ELW on May 27, 2018, 09:20 PM

I was hoping you would be able to back up your generalization, but as you haven't it will remain your own opinion or idea which is fair enough but incorrect for any forum members reading. I used the Ashoka recipes for a reason as on the face of it  they are legitimate Punjabi bir recipes, of which there are many but not available on here. Your palette test is neither here nor there unfortunately, as is curryisnice

ELW

Aren't you doing exactly the same ELW?
You keep using the  Ashoka as though they are representative of the thousands of BIR's in Scotland (which they are not) simply because they're Punjabi.
That would be the same as saying every hamburger restaurant in the states tastes like McDonald's because they're American.  :

It also reminds me when I asked the question on here a few years back, Why is there so much turmeric used in BIR?
Curryking replied saying it was a normal amount and that his wife should know because she's Indian.  ;D :

I'm using the Ashoka as an example as its something to point at regarding your idea. I never said Ashoka restaurants were representative of anything in terms of Punjabi bir in the West of Scotland. They don't even have the same flavour across their own restaurants, I'm not sure this can even  be done when cooking individual curries.
Whilst on the Ashoka recipes, if you look at the quantities of g&g used , that might point to why you don't like the the curries here. And if you have the time compare this to the many Bengali bir recipes(not the gravies) on here and you may have your
 answer, garlic paste, or chopped garlic and no ginger at all in the curry, for certain dishes.

As for Pakistani restaurants not catering for western palates, a relative newcomer was top of Trip Advisor for "Indian restaurant" in Glasgow city centre, for a couple of years. I've never saw anyone of Asian descent in there in my life.Who are they catering for you reckon?
Finally the most well known Pakistani restaurant in Glasgow, possibly Scotland, claims to have ' invented the tikka masala"
Bull or not, If that's not catering for Western palates, I don't know what is.
ELW

Quote from: Garp on May 16, 2018, 09:09 PM

I have no idea where you get this notion of Punjabi BIR chefs adding raw ginger to a finished dish. Having eaten curries in Scotland, and elsewhere for at least 35 years I have never heard of, or indeed, tasted this.

Its what I have been told by many people including chefs and on this forum too ie DalPuri being one person who also confirmed this. ALso in the West of Scotland most places I have had a curry from I can taste the ginger in the curry and everyone I was with also said they could taste the ginger too.

What chefs told you this?  And seeing you are connected to them, why not get the recipes and methods from them and we can add it to the forum
ELW
 

Since living in Scotland for the past 4 or 5 years, I must've been to at least 40 odd curry houses. Be it takeaway or restaurant.
They all have (bar one or two) the same flavour to their savoury curries.
And I put it down to the G/G paste not being fried at the start of each dish.

Ashoka recipes, on this forum since 2008, Punjabi all day long, using a 3 in 2, in favour of  garlic pre fried g&g paste in the dish, using a gravy which could be from anywhere. To be expected from CURRYISNICE, as he has clearly read very little on here before posting. Thought you may have came across this after over a thousand posts though.

ELW

Hi ELW,

We do the following gravies to make the dishes with.

Onion Gravy
Butter Gravy
Korma Gravy
Veg Gravy
Vindaloo Gravy
Seafood Gravy

Each gravy is cooked from scratch and contains different ingredients. When a final dish is being prepared that contains multiple gravies, the different spices used in each gravy create a subtle difference in the finished dish. No  BIR mixed powder is used in the finished dishes as the spices are all contained in the gravies with the exception of finishing spices, black pepper, chili powder or garam masala.

The Veg Gravy for example is used for vegetarian dishes and contains besides a different spice mix, some whole seeds, (cumin, mustard, kalongi, fenugreek, fennel seeds) which are added at the start, along with some other whole spices. This adds a different depth of flavor as there is no meat/chicken stock added to the final dishes.

The Butter/Makhani Gravy has some whole spices added to hot oil, once they darken and expand/pop, the onions are added in and cooked/fried for a good 40 minutes till the volume has reduced by about half. At that point a big handful of methi leaves goes in and it fries for another 40 or so minutes with some salt added at this stage, and cooked until they have reduced right down and are quite dark. In goes the masala mix which is fried for a couple of minutes, then in with the ginger and garlic paste, cooked for another few minutes. Next comes tomato paste(the thick concentrated stuff) and a little water and then a whole lot of blended cashews, some food coloring and sugar. That is then bought back to a boil carefully so as to not have anything burn on the bottom and then it is cooked for on low heat for another hour or so till the oil starts to rise to the surface.

For our 'butter dishes' (Butter Chicken, Paneer Butter Masala etc) there is no actual butter ever added, strange but true! And it is by far the best Butter Chicken I have ever tasted.

The only issue with the 'curry mixing' that we do is that it is a whole lot of work to do just at home having to make 4-6 gravies, I don't like seafood so never worry about making that one at home.

Cheers,
Mark

One thing I forgot to add is that no Pataks or bought pastes are used at all, all masalas used for the gravies are made from scratch along with almost all of the condiments, ie the tamarind sauce, mint sauce for pakoras etc. A couple of packet mixed spices are used ie Bombay Biryani Masala and Chaat Masala, and a couple of pickles are bought as well as they are too time consuming to make.

Quote from: Masala Mark on December 14, 2011, 12:08 AM

Hi,

In regards to the missing flavor and the overload of the sense of smell when cooking the dishes, I think unfortunately it is a red herring.

My reason for saying this is that when I started training in the restaurant here making the base gravies, I would start at 2:00pm, cutting onions for the first hour, then making the gravies for the next 3 hours.

Around 6:00pm things start getting busy and depending upon how much is going on, I will either be grabbing ingredients for the chef or cooking the dishes myself, under his watchful eye. As part of my training the chef would get me to taste the dishes while we were cooking. And I can say that even after standing in a very small shop where there is no separation between the kitchen and the front counter, the dishes tasted perfect and smelt perfect, even after cooking very large amounts in a very confined space.

Admittedly when I got home my wife says I stink of curry and fried samosas etc, but I can't smell it, but I could certainly taste how the curries were supposed to taste, and smell how they were meant to.

The bases are full of spices, no such thing as mixed powder, it is similar in process to Ashoka whereby multiple gravies are made which have a large amount of spices and are then mixed to make different dishes, with only a sprinkle of spices at the cooking stage. Ie for Chicken Tikka Masala, butter gravy is used along with a pinch of black pepper and methi, onion and capsicum, and a little cream. A Rogan Josh is a mix of onion gravy, butter gravy, tamarind, pinch of mace powder and a little sugar and salt. Madras is mustard seeds, curry leaves, chili powder, onion gravy, coconut milk powder and a pinch of salt. Butter Chicken is nothing more then butter gravy, pinch of salt, pinch of garam masala, cream and methi.

As much as I have learnt from working in the restaurant, I have also learnt that it is sometimes so much more enjoyable to go and pay the $40 for 4 dishes locally and sit back and enjoy them thoroughly rather then spending 4-6 hours making the base gravies and dishes.

Cheers,
Mark

Quote from: Masala Mark on December 14, 2011, 12:08 AM

Hi,

In regards to the missing flavor and the overload of the sense of smell when cooking the dishes, I think unfortunately it is a red herring.

My reason for saying this is that when I started training in the restaurant here making the base gravies, I would start at 2:00pm, cutting onions for the first hour, then making the gravies for the next 3 hours.

Around 6:00pm things start getting busy and depending upon how much is going on, I will either be grabbing ingredients for the chef or cooking the dishes myself, under his watchful eye. As part of my training the chef would get me to taste the dishes while we were cooking. And I can say that even after standing in a very small shop where there is no separation between the kitchen and the front counter, the dishes tasted perfect and smelt perfect, even after cooking very large amounts in a very confined space.

Admittedly when I got home my wife says I stink of curry and fried samosas etc, but I can't smell it, but I could certainly taste how the curries were supposed to taste, and smell how they were meant to.

The bases are full of spices, no such thing as mixed powder, it is similar in process to Ashoka whereby multiple gravies are made which have a large amount of spices and are then mixed to make different dishes, with only a sprinkle of spices at the cooking stage. Ie for Chicken Tikka Masala, butter gravy is used along with a pinch of black pepper and methi, onion and capsicum, and a little cream. A Rogan Josh is a mix of onion gravy, butter gravy, tamarind, pinch of mace powder and a little sugar and salt. Madras is mustard seeds, curry leaves, chili powder, onion gravy, coconut milk powder and a pinch of salt. Butter Chicken is nothing more then butter gravy, pinch of salt, pinch of garam masala, cream and methi.

As much as I have learnt from working in the restaurant, I have also learnt that it is sometimes so much more enjoyable to go and pay the $40 for 4 dishes locally and sit back and enjoy them thoroughly rather then spending 4-6 hours making the base gravies and dishes.

Cheers,
Mark

No he said there was no butter all. I remember this reply , due to the oddness
ELW

I remember masala mark telling me on here, the butter chicken at the place he worked in
contained  no butter at all   
 Then again jb's chef makes a garam masala dish with none of that either
 :