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Messages - livo

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1641
Lets Talk Curry / Re: Running out of ideas
« on: April 14, 2018, 11:29 PM »
ELW, I have this morning done some research on Butter in Butter Chicken. I have looked at around 20 recipes, studied the difference between Murgh Makhani and Chicken Tikka Masala and also actual Indian people's descriptions of the dish. It is completely possible to have Butter Chicken with very little or no butter. One food scientist with 50 years experience actually said that the Makhani word in this dish name is used in the context of the mouth feel of the dish being buttery in texture only and has nothing to do with the use of actual butter. He actually says that a dish containing lots of butter would be unpleasant in it's oiliness.  Mind you others say that is must contain lots of butter.

The common thing is that most contain, cream, yogurt and either ghee or butter and sometimes oil.  I guess like most Indian dishes, there are so many different interpretations that you can call it what ever you wish.  There is a recently posted thread about the 2 Indian sisters cooking this dish on BBC TV and there are some who believe that the dish is CTM. The Indian girls simply say that CTM is just UK Butter Chicken.

The discussion or debate about the difference or similarity within and between each dish will never be resolved one way or the other.  I guess only a person from the UK can say what is actually a proper CTM.

What Masala Mark told you here is completely possible. It is different to the recipe he posted under the thread of the dish name but from memory he was under the guidance of 2 different chefs. One was in lessons and the other he worked for.  This may well explain the difference we see here.

Yesterday morning, I pulled out my notes from the time I used his procedure initially, and I scaled everything down 1/5.  You wouldn't want to go much smaller as it would become micro-cooking, but even with these reduced amounts in 3 gravy / paste preparations you will be having enough to make about 20 - 30 individual dishes.  It is also a lot of work and will take 6 - 10 hours to produce all 3.  Maybe less if you look for similarities and develop shortcuts and do simultaneous preparations.  There are some commonalities in the procedures and ingredients.
'

1642
Tandoori Dishes / Re: Aussie IR Lesson - Butter Chicken
« on: April 14, 2018, 11:03 AM »
This is the recipe I used ELW. I can see that he told you no butter but here is what I was referring to. No drama for me though.


Butter Chicken

Ingredients:
 - 2 tbsp oil
 - 2 tsp Ginger/Garlic puree (50:50)
 - 3.5 heaped tbsp Tomato Gravy paste http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4922.0
 - 1 tsp Kasoori Methi
 - 125ml-250ml Water
 - 1 tbsp White Sugar
 - Pre-cooked Chicken Tikka, approx half a chicken breast worth of pieces
 - 100ml cream
 - 1 tbsp Ghee/Butter
 - 0.25 tsp Salt
 - 1 tsp Coriander Leaves
 - Red Food Color powder (optional, we didn't use but he mentioned they do

Method:

7. Add the butter and blend with the sauce


1643
Yes, I recall my surprise at the little actual butter used in his Butter Chicken There is only 1 Tbsp of glee/butter in his recipe but 100 mls of cream and the Tomato gravy. From memory though it was quite a nice dish.  The method of 3 gravies used in combination and with varying ratios was quite laborious and the quantities took some scaling to achieve home use quantities. My notes from the time on printed sheets remind me that there were problems with amounts that I remember encountering, but in fairness he was providing a commercial process and he tells it as so, that they are huge quantities. My calculations estimate there is enough Gravy in his 3 recipes for about 100 curries.

These gravies are very concentrated in spice levels and flavours. Consequently, only water is added along with them in the dish preparation stages.  ie; No normal BIR style Base Gravy at all.

I gave it a try and it worked but it wasn't what I was after at the time. I may revisit the method again now that I have better understanding of curries in general.  Unfortunately, he didn't follow up with very many actual dish recipes.

1644
I get that Garp. Point taken and understood.  This is just a discussion on this thread as it's titled in relation to the liveliness of the forum.  I'm not trying to coerce people into needless posting and there isn't always the time..  This is just a bit of naval-gazing and a comment.  Over the last couple of days I've been scouring through the back pages and reading old threads. There is so much great information here. Tricky and time consuming to find but worth the effort.

Sadly though, there are several recurring themes going way back. One that I have found, in several instances now, is how a thread simply ends with a question from a less experienced member requesting further assistance on a recipe or technique. Looking at their profile then shows the disappearance of that member's activity. Another is the sometimes aggressive tone and condescending approach taken by some and the counter of that from helpful members who obviously feel that they almost have to be apologetic for the prior.

I'm am frequently surprised by the number of long-standing members with no, or next to no, posts at all, and then there is the whole civil war episode that took place just before I joined up and as alluded to by DalPuri just now. Reading posts from that era is astonishing at times.

I'm not asking for anything. Just commenting on the topic. It is the nature of the beast, the internet forum.  ;)

1645
Yes Phil, sorry. Spell auto correct on my tablet combined with no spectacles. Oops. Yes, I did mean leeching.  Leeching isn't a bad thing necessarily as, and for the reason, you suggest

The guest count may be robots I suppose, maybe not. I hadn't considered it.

I am just saying George, the Home Page banner says the site has thousands of like-minded members creating curry with passion. Over the last couple of months posts are from maybe a dozen to 20. Posts regarding cooking curry from maybe half. Just sayin, the activity on the board by the thousands of like-minded members is a bit sluggish and suggestive of not a lot of curry cooking passion.

1646
I was more alluding to the general lack of input but apparent abundance of leaching evident here.

1647
Did a quick count through the forum. About 10 members on and close to 700 guests. Just sayin'.

1648
Grow Your Own Spices and Herbs / Re: Dagad phool
« on: April 12, 2018, 11:52 PM »
I read that too and had the same thought. I don't think it is Phil. At least certainly not in the quantities that I've ever used it.  Maybe they used to use it by the cup-full.

I have some Ajinamoto in the spice cupboard that I occasionally use when it is specifically called for in some Asian dishes or seasoning spice mixes, but it is generally a no show for me nowadays.

I knew a guy (now deceased) who would immediately develop a crippling migraine upon eating even the slightest amount of Flavour Enhancer 621.

1649
Here is another interesting extract from The Guardian article 2002 discussing "Indian" food in India.

"'The hotels made very commercial food - things like butter chicken. Nobody ever cooks a butter chicken at home. I would say 90 per cent of Indian hotels make three sauces. A red sauce, which is a tomato sauce, a white sauce which is a cashew sauce and a brown onion sauce. And then when the order comes they add the cooked meat or whatever.' In this country, as a result, all sorts of adjustments have quietly to be made for Western restaurant eating."

The 3 sauces referred to here are exactly what Masala Mark has described in his Aussie IR method of 3 gravies.

The article then goes on to say; "Nor do Indians drink beer, let alone wine, with food. ".

This is not similar to Aussie IR in any way.  ;)

1650
Grow Your Own Spices and Herbs / Re: Dagad phool
« on: April 12, 2018, 10:56 PM »
I was looking at something completely different this morning in old posts, circa 2011 and decided to do a Google search on The Curry Club.  My late Father-in-Law was a subscriber way back in the late 1980's when I first met my wife. There is little left of it other than Pat Chapman's books (which cop a fair slamming on this site).  I have none and I don't know what happened to the FIL's old stuff when he passed a few years ago.  Anyway, the Google search surprised me with a find of this very small CRO thread of only the OP and 7 replies (1 from George) dating back to 2005. Pat Chapman knows the answer to the secret

The OP, by Blondie, contains an extract from, and a link to, an article in The Guardian from 2002. 
It's curry, but not as we know it 

I decided to read it through just out of interest.

Cinnamon Club chef at the time Vivek Singh discusses the importation of special ingredients for specific dishes and here I surprisingly found this reference to "Rock Moss".

 "In common with other top-class Indian restaurants, the Cinnamon Club imports many spices directly. 'A Rajasthani dish with coriander grown in Kenya somehow doesn't taste the same,' Vivek says. 'We might serve a Rajasthani lamb curry with lemon rice from the south of India, but the Rajasthani lamb curry itself must be authentic.'
Red chillies are brought in from Rajasthan; pepper, cinnamon and cardamom from Kerala; mustard from Bengal; rattan jyot from Kashmir; and rock moss from Hyderabad. This last ingredient, which looks exactly as it sounds, doesn't taste of anything, but brings out the favour of biryanis. 'A real biryani requires a high level of skill,' Vivek explains, 'because the marinated meat is covered with rice that is already two-thirds cooked. Then it is sealed and steamed so that the raw meat cooks in the same time as the rice. It needs a large quantity to work.'

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