Topic: Fry spices or not?

[meggeth]

Just wanted to ask experienced chefs whether they fry spices (Bruce Edwards style), or cook spices with the sauce (Kris Dillon style), and do you think it makes any difference to your finished Curries?

[ELW]

Hi Meggeth, i'm no chef, but i've tried both methods. Frying the spices in oil/ G&G / tomatoes is called baghar/tempering & i've found it to make no significant difference to taste so far. You would think it would make a huge difference, but I cant tell very much from it. .I do it pretty much as standard now when making a gravy, as it's mentioned quite a few recipe's. There is the added risk of burning though

Regards
ELW

[JerryM]

i think Dipuraja uses the KD or "all in" (add oil then base then spice). i think the taz approach is the same.

i suspect that most members use the BE method "hot fry spices".

it is surprising how close the result is between the 2 methods. it also depends on the dish - "cream" dishes are very tolerant. "curry" dishes ie madras are less tolerant

the hot fry or Zaal singe and quench still has some unknown in it for me. i add a chef spoon of base (you could also water the tom puree, you just need free water) to fry the spice as i get consistency and can detect the end point without burning.

i have used the hot dry fry "toffee smell" method and also experimented pushing the envelop quite a few times. i have been able to get an improved taste but no consistency. the trouble is that it could be down just to the limits of my ability or practice ie in reality i'm just cooking 1 dish better than the other albeit trying to cook them the same.

in short i've given up worrying if i "singe" enough but certainly make sure i get the quench.

[meggeth]

Ok, thanks guys. It seems that it probably doesn't too much difference then. As my wife is veggie, I tend to fry onions and peppers for a while, then fry spices for 10 secs with the veg. This way I'm hoping the oil can't get too hot and burn the spices.

[emin-j]

In my opinion it's the oil in a curry that carries the flavour so I have returned to the method of frying the spices in the oil as the oil is like blotting paper and to my mind this method delivers the most flavour.

[spiceyokooko]

Just wanted to ask experienced chefs whether they fry spices (Bruce Edwards style), or cook spices with the sauce (Kris Dillon style), and do you think it makes any difference to your finished Curries?

I assume by Bruce Edwards style you mean straight into hot oil and by Kris Dillon style you mean into something frying in hot oil whether it be onions or garlic/ginger paste etc. I don't really think it matters which you do as long as you don't let the spices burn.

The Kris Dillon style has become popular for the simple reason that there's more margin of error due to the water content still being in the pan which gives you more control. There's less room for error in the Bruce Edwards method because if you misjudge the oil temperature those spices can go from being okay to burnt in seconds.

The big advantage of the Kris Dillon method is that there's an indicator as to when all the water has gone, because the oil separates, there's no indicator with the Bruce Edwards method to tell you that, hence how much easier it is to misjudge the cooking time.

I like to push my spice frying to the very limits before they start to burn and frequently continue frying for anything up to a minute after oil separation because I want to extract the maximum flavour from them as I believe that the frying of spices is the key stage that shapes the final flavour of the dish. This is done on a pretty high heat with constant stirring to stop them sticking and burning.

I've never understood why, in many videos (and even suggestions on here) people take the pan off the heat when they add spices to be fried. Why? Why are you dropping the heat, then raising it again?

[Peripatetic Phil]

I've never understood why, in many videos (and even suggestions on here) people take the pan off the heat when they add spices to be fried. Why? Why are you dropping the heat, then raising it again?

Safety.  At the moment that the spices hit the pan, one hand is already occupied holding the spice container.  If you want to stir with the other hand, to minimise the risk of the spices burning, the pan will rotate because you don't have a hand free to hold the handle.  With whole spices, there is no problem : there is a sufficient margin of error that the chances of them burning before you have a chance to stir is minimal; but with powdered/ground spices, the risk is significant, so I always add my ground spices to a relatively cool pan and then bring it up to frying temperature when I have both hands free, one to hold the pan handle, the other to hold the spatula.  And Chef Ajoy Joshi recommends this technique as well.

** Phil.

[spiceyokooko]

Phil

Thanks for clarifying the logic behind why people do that, it seems perfectly rational.

However, I've seen it done both ways. Chefs holding the pan handle with one hand, with the pan still on the heat, dipping their chefs spoon into the mix spice with the other and straight into the pan and stirring.

As I said, I'm very much in the camp of adding it whilst the pan stays on the heat myself and I can't see myself changing anytime soon to be honest. I like to keep the heat right up there when adding spices.

It would be interesting to hear from others as to what they do.

[Peripatetic Phil]

Phil

Thanks for clarifying the logic behind why people do that, it seems perfectly rational.

However, I've seen it done both ways. Chefs holding the pan handle with one hand, with the pan still on the heat, dipping their chefs spoon into the mix spice with the other and straight into the pan and stirring.

Yes, in a  commercial kitchen where the spices are "dipped" (to use Dave Lloyden's term), there is no problem, since the spices are transferred using the same spoon that will be used to stir.  But for we small-scale chefs at home, who like to put 3 teaspoonsful of this and 2 teaspoonsful of that into a small container first, and then empty the container into the wok, the lack of a third hand makes a cool wok a much safer implement in terms of the risk of spice burn.

** Phil.

[DalPuri]

Just wanted to ask experienced chefs whether they fry spices (Bruce Edwards style), or cook spices with the sauce (Kris Dillon style), and do you think it makes any difference to your finished Curries?

I assume by Bruce Edwards style you mean straight into hot oil and by Kris Dillon style you mean into something frying in hot oil whether it be onions or garlic/ginger paste etc. I don't really think it matters which you do as long as you don't let the spices burn.

The Kris Dillon style has become popular for the simple reason that there's more margin of error due to the water content still being in the pan which gives you more control. There's less room for error in the Bruce Edwards method because if you misjudge the oil temperature those spices can go from being okay to burnt in seconds.

The big advantage of the Kris Dillon method is that there's an indicator as to when all the water has gone, because the oil separates, there's no indicator with the Bruce Edwards method to tell you that, hence how much easier it is to misjudge the cooking time.

I like to push my spice frying to the very limits before they start to burn and frequently continue frying for anything up to a minute after oil separation because I want to extract the maximum flavour from them as I believe that the frying of spices is the key stage that shapes the final flavour of the dish. This is done on a pretty high heat with constant stirring to stop them sticking and burning.

I've never understood why, in many videos (and even suggestions on here) people take the pan off the heat when they add spices to be fried. Why? Why are you dropping the heat, then raising it again?

I cook on high heat and cook my spices similar to you. I dont even look in the pan as i casually dump spoonfuls in of this or that AND close the boxes back up (4 sided airtight) because i know they wont burn until i start to stir.
And even then there's still plenty of time before they burn.