Topic: Horsemeat burgers and lasagne

[Malc.]

I'm sorry but I disagree with Phil on this one. Whether certain animals give you their 'love unconditionally' is at best highly debatable. People who work with animals will also tell you the same about cows and especially pigs. Once you chose to eat meat you cannot pretend that the meat you eat is somehow different.

I have to agree, pets are born into captivity and reared to accept humans in a relationship not of their making. I wonder if the so called pet would remain so loyal if you stopped feeding it and opened the door.

As for eating horse, the important part is giving the animal the respect it deserves. If it is slaughtered humanely then yes I would. There's far worse going on in this country, millions of people buy 2 for

[Peripatetic Phil]

I have to agree, pets are born into captivity and reared to accept humans in a relationship not of their making. I wonder if the so called pet would remain so loyal if you stopped feeding it and opened the door.

It is an interesting (one hopes hypothetical) question, but it is also something of an over-simplification : our pets have been selectively bred to select the very genes that code for love and affection (also for playfulness, quasi-immature behaviour and so on).  So the pet actually has very little choice : it has been forcibly evolved to behave in this way.

As for eating horse, the important part is giving the animal the respect it deserves. If it is slaughtered humanely then yes I would. There's far worse going on in this country, millions of people buy 2 for

[Malc.]

But you have to Admit Phil "give their love unconditionally" and  "forcibly evolved" paint two different pictures. Either way, I respect that people have pets and are passionate about the relationship hey have with them. For me, it's all about the respect for the animal not the pet.

I don't think most people have the stomach to view on public display what takes place in an abattoir, knackery or any other animal 'processing' plant, that would be a step too far. However, I do feel that it is very important that people at least have a true knowledge of an abattoir and how their chosen meat product has been cultivated.

[chef888]

i tried horse meat a few yrs ago upset my tummy gave me the trotts ;-) lol ( ivan )

[Peripatetic Phil]

But you have to Admit Phil "give their love unconditionally" and  "forcibly evolved" paint two different pictures.

I don't think they do, Malc : the animal (pet) has been forcibly evolved to give its love unconditionally.  It has no choice in its selectively-bred inherited traits, and having inherited those traits, it has no choice (or very little choice) other than to behave in the manner for which its genes code.

Returning to your earlier point, "I wonder if the so called pet would remain so loyal if you stopped feeding it and opened the door", I would offer two observations : (1) After a short period (a few days at most in cats, much longer in dogs), the animal would leave.  (2) But except in very rare circumstances it would not then elect to go feral : rather, it would seek out another human who could offer love, food and accommodation.

I share my home with a 3-legged cat "Jaffa", who adopted us about 14  months ago.  His former home is within less than 100 yards (probably closer to 50), and he returns there from time to time, mainly (I think) to seek out his brother, with whom he remains close even at the age of 13 (I cut a cat-flap-shaped hole in the intervening fence to facilitate his excursions).  But when I went away to Abu Dhabi for a few days, despite making arrangements with three separate people to come in and feed him and attend to him, within two days he had returned to his former home, and there he stayed until my return.  One rather sad thing is that he almost certainly suffered some brain damage when he haemorrhaged after surgery (he crashed twice, and needed three transfusions), and when he goes upstairs late evening, he then cries to be let into the closed bedrooms : he almost certainly expects to find his brother there (which is where he would be in his former home), and he is clearly sad and disturbed at not finding Tumble there ...

** Phil.

[Willyeckerslike]

but I will never intentionally sentence any animal to death.

** Phil.

Every time you buy your chicken at Waitrose or wherever you do sentence an animal to death to restock the shelf...

[Peripatetic Phil]

Every time you buy your chicken at Waitrose or wherever you do sentence an animal to death to restock the shelf...

There is merit in your argument, Will; perhaps I should have said "never sentence any individual animal to death". I know, of course, that animals are killed in anticipation of the demand that I will later make for their meat.

** Phil.

[Malc.]

It's horses for courses Phil. ;D

[Peripatetic Phil]

It's horses for courses Phil. ;D

Had it not been for my horse, Malc, my wife and I would probably never have started going out together, let alone getting married.  So I have a lot to be grateful to horses for, and to Jingo in particular ...

** Phil.

[harley]

Our cat was a stray kitten from down the road, it was adament we were going to be its new owners. I think it liked our junk filled garden and wanted out of the perfect house near by. Whatever it was he the cat was well suited to us.