Topic: For those of you with Ebooks.....

[vindapoo]

I can't help but grin at the fact that Phil is questioning the ethics of pdfunlock and george is asking for help on how to unlock digital rights. Suddenly I get this flashback from an old post where George lectured Phil on ethics and moral because he posted copyrighted ebooks (or links) to the forum.

To the best of my knowledge I have never posted copyright material, although I have occasionally quoted brief excerpts and given full credit to (and acknowledged the copyright of) the original author.  My concern is not that one user unlocks one of Mick's files :  that is an individual choice, and I am not going to get worked up about it.  My concern is with the ethics of posting a URL that will allow any user to unlock not only Mick's PDFs but many others as well.  I cannot speak for Mick, but I /believe/ that he distributes the PDFs in locked format not to stop printing (printing is enabled but limited in resolution) but to stop (a) bulk copying of the content, and (b) removal of his copyright notice, which would then allow unscrupulous individuals to put copies up via (say) BitTorrent, announce their existence (without any acknowledgement of Mick's copyright) and then others who download them would be completely unaware that they had just downloaded copyright material.  Mick charges an extremely reasonable price for his e-books; should we not, in return, do him the courtesy of respecting his copyright and keeping to ourselves any knowledge we may have on how such PDFs can be unlocked ?

** Phil.

If I paid for a pdf I'll do whatever I want with it. Any author who thinks he can control content post sale is deluded and/or naive.

All forms of DRM are bad form and ultimately pointless. A piece of work is either copyright or its not. No amount of useless virtual 'padlocks' will make the slightest difference.

[Peripatetic Phil]

If I paid for a pdf I'll do whatever I want with it. Any author who thinks he can control content post sale is deluded and/or naive.

What you do with a PDF for which you have paid is entirely your affair; my objection is solely to the fact that you are inciting others to unlock PDFs by deliberately posting a URL to a site that exists for no other purpose.  This web site / forum / whatever exists to disseminate information concerning curries and related matters; it is /not/ a forum for hackers, on which such links are the norm and therefore to be expected.

All forms of DRM are bad form and ultimately pointless.

In your opinion.

A piece of work is either copyright or its not. No amount of useless virtual 'padlocks' will make the slightest difference.

When you have a physical book, it contains a statement of copyright.  The only way in which you can remove that statement is by tearing out the page or by snopaqueing over it.  An unlocked PDF is entirely different; it is possible to remove a copyright statement and leave behind no obvious trace.  /That/ is why locked PDFs exists, and why I believe it is incumbent on us to respect the right of an author to distribute his or her material in locked format. 

** Phil.

[DalPuri]

Interesting  ;D

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,5079.msg49073.html#msg49073

[Peripatetic Phil]

Interesting  ;D

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,5079.msg49073.html#msg49073

Yes, but please read the follow-up :

I think that's very commendable, Will, but I am little more pragmatic : I am willing to download illicit copies of things if I think that I may wish to purchase them subsequently -- that is, I use the illicit copies simply for the purposes of evaluation, or to give me something from which I can print recipes so that I don't have to risk getting the real book splashed with curry sauce !  For example, I have downloaded a copy of KD's first book, but I have also bought three copies : one of the first edition, one of the revised edition, and one of the new edition.  If I like Curry Cu1s1ne, I will buy a copy; if I don't, I will simply delete it.

** Phil.

[DalPuri]

Yes, but please read the follow-up :

I already did 

[vindapoo]

If I paid for a pdf I'll do whatever I want with it. Any author who thinks he can control content post sale is deluded and/or naive.

What you do with a PDF for which you have paid is entirely your affair; my objection is solely to the fact that you are inciting others to unlock PDFs by deliberately posting a URL to a site that exists for no other purpose.  This web site / forum / whatever exists to disseminate information concerning curries and related matters; it is /not/ a forum for hackers, on which such links are the norm and therefore to be expected.

All forms of DRM are bad form and ultimately pointless.

In your opinion.

A piece of work is either copyright or its not. No amount of useless virtual 'padlocks' will make the slightest difference.

When you have a physical book, it contains a statement of copyright.  The only way in which you can remove that statement is by tearing out the page or by snopaqueing over it.  An unlocked PDF is entirely different; it is possible to remove a copyright statement and leave behind no obvious trace.  /That/ is why locked PDFs exists, and why I believe it is incumbent on us to respect the right of an author to distribute his or her material in locked format. 

** Phil.

Perhaps you misunderstand.

unlocking a pdf is not hacking. pdf is an open standard and I can print and lock any pdf I like.

I think you are getting confused as its entirely legitimate in the same was as unzipping a file.

[Gav Iscon]

I always strip out the DRM from amazon stuff as it doesn't work on my Kobo otherwise. I mainly use Calibre on my desktop as it arranges my books and uploads them to my Kobo.

[Peripatetic Phil]

Perhaps you misunderstand.  unlocking a pdf is not hacking. pdf is an open standard and I can print and lock any pdf I like.

No, you can unlock any PDF that you have permission to unlock.  When a supplier offers you a PDF for download, he/she may place constraints on what you can do with it.  If you accept those terms, then you are bound by them.

I think you are getting confused as its entirely legitimate in the same was as unzipping a file.

"Legitimate" :  in certain circumstances.  You can legitimately unzip a ZIP file only if (a) it is not password-protected, or (b) you have been provided with the password by the creator of the ZIP file. Whether or not it is ethical depends entirely on what you plan to do with the PDF after unlocking.  For example, suppose you were to take one of Mick's e-books, unlock it, then replace all instances of "food colouring" with "phenolpthaleine" and re-distribute the book.  Mick would then be blamed by those who use your hacked recipes for the diarrhoea that they would undoubtedly suffer, and quite probably sued to boot  So such a use would be at the very least unethical, and quite possibly illegal.  Or you might choose to remove all statements of copyright, and then re-distribute it via BitTorrent; others receiving the hacked copy would then be led to believe that they had every right to distribute further copies, and Mick's income stream would suffer a a result.  Also unethical.  But suppose you were to unlock it, correct a few typos and then send it back to Mick so that he would have a better master copy to distribute in future.  In my opinon, unlocking for such a reason would be ethical ('though of course I do not know if Mick would agree).  Or you might want to produce a very high quality bound book that you could show to your friends.  Also ethical, in my opinion.  But in such circumstances it would be more honourable to contact Mick first, explain your aims, and then ask if he could let you have an unlocked copy subject to your assurance that you would use it only for the purpose stated, and would not pass on the unlocked copy to anyone else.  Do /you/ now understand, VP ?

** Phil.

[meggeth]

Ok, back to the reason for this post - I am looking at CBMs site to order the e-books. I am convinced that when I looked a few days ago there were 2 e-books with an offer to buy both at a reduced cost. Now I can only see 1 e-book!! Can anyone else check the site and see if there are 2 e-books please?

Am I going mad?   

[Peripatetic Phil]

Am I going mad?   

More likely ARMD

http://www.indiancurryrecipes-cbm.com/online-store.php

** Phil.