Topic: Back to my roots

[Peripatetic Phil]

My curries have been pretty much rubbish of late, and two attempts at re-creating a 60s/70s Bhuna Chicken this week failed dismally.  So today I returned to my roots.  KD1 base, absolutely to spec., and a KD1-inspired Chicken Madras.  It was /great/, just like my curries used to be.  So, why is it that it is asserted time and time again that the initial frying of the spices is the key, whilst Kris Dhillon makes no attempt whatsoever to fry them , yet the results are out of this world ?  Here, for reference, are the recipe and methodology that I used :

• 3/4 pint KD1 base
• 6 pieces pre-cooked chicken (free-range, Wiltshire, breast)
• 5 tablespoons vegetable oil
• 1 teaspoon Kashmiri mirch
• 1 teaspoon Deggi mirch
• 1 teaspoon Bassar curry masala
• 1 1/2 teaspoons ground cumin
• 1 teaspoon coarse rock salt
• 2/3 teaspoon ground methi
• 1/2 teaspoon garam masala
• 1/3 teaspoon ground coriander
• 1/5 teaspoon hing
• coriander stalks (chopped)
• coriander leaves (coarsely chopped)

• Heat the oil, add the base, bring to the boil
• Add the chilli, Bassar, salt & chicken; cook at 70% for 5 minutes
• Reduce heat to 30%, add the cumin, fenugreek, coriander, hing; cook for 3 minutes
• Reduce heat to 20%, add the coriander stalk and garam masala; cook for 2 minutes
• Turn off the heat, garnish with coriander leaf, serve with pulao rice and red onion salad

The only non-recipe addition was a little rabbit stock at the very end, as the sauce was a little too thick for my taste.

** Phil.

[Kashmiri Bob]

Have you tried the same dish frying the spices first Phil?  Like in, 'erm, KD2.

Rob 

[Peripatetic Phil]

Have you tried the same dish frying the spices first Phil?  Like in, 'erm, KD2 ?

Not exactly the same dish, Rob, but very similar.  As I have KD2 (rather too many copies :  one of my friends keeps forgetting she has already given it to me !) I shall take a look and then compare.  But I am now beginning to believe that at least a part of my recent failures is down to spice-ageing. I made sag aloo a few nights ago, from a tried and trusted recipe, and could barely taste any spicing at all.  I may have to ditch my present stock and start again, this time buying only small bags of each rather than large bags for (?false?) economy ...

** Phil.

[Stephen Lindsay]

Phil

Was your KD1 Madras made with your ageing spices? It turned out great?

Steve

[Peripatetic Phil]

Was your KD1 Madras made with your ageing spices? It turned out great?

Less aged than the "CA curry masala" I used in the sag aloo.  My most commonly used spices (Kashmiri & deggi mirch, ground methi) are relatively fresh because I buy them in small packs and use a lot.  Others (such as turmeric and paprika) I buy in bulk and use (relatively) little.  The "CA curry masala" could be seriously old ...

But to return to Rob's suggestion ...  In fact, it would not be possible to cook it a la KD2, as there is no recipe for either Chicken Curry or Chicken Madras in that volume !  The very first recipe in her chicken section (Chicken Methiwalla) uses exactly the same methodology as KD1 (modulo the frying of the methi leaves) and whilst /some/ of the later chicken recipes fry the ground spices this is by no means universal.  Exactly which dish did you have in mind when you asked your question, Rob ?

** Phil.

[Kashmiri Bob]

Was your KD1 Madras made with your ageing spices? It turned out great?

Less aged than the "CA curry masala" I used in the sag aloo.  My most commonly used spices (Kashmiri & deggi mirch, ground methi) are relatively fresh because I buy them in small packs and use a lot.  Others (such as turmeric and paprika) I buy in bulk and use (relatively) little.  The "CA curry masala" could be seriously old ...

But to return to Rob's suggestion ...  In fact, it would not be possible to cook it a la KD2, as there is no recipe for either Chicken Curry or Chicken Madras in that volume !  The very first recipe in her chicken section (Chicken Methiwalla) uses exactly the same methodology as KD1 (modulo the frying of the methi leaves) and whilst /some/ of the later chicken recipes fry the ground spices this is by no means universal.  Exactly which dish did you have in mind when you asked your question, Rob ?

** Phil.

Phil. The reference to KD2 was meant in terms of the (generally) accepted technique for frying spices, for a curry, which seemed to be causing you confusion in your opening post.  Your recipe doesn't actually appear in either of the books, but I know what you mean.  If you are still struggling to make a decent curry after changing your dodgy spices, may I suggest going back to Mick's ebook (vol 1), or revisit Chewy's videos.  Both of these resources will help get you back on track, and in  the right direction.

Rob 

[Peripatetic Phil]

Phil. The reference to KD2 was meant in terms of the (generally) accepted technique for frying spices, for a curry, which seemed to be causing you confusion in your opening post.  Your recipe doesn't actually appear in either of the books, but I know what you mean.  If you are still struggling to make a decent curry after changing your dodgy spices, may I suggest going back to Mick's ebook (vol 1), or revisit Chewy's videos.  Both of these resources will help get you back on track, and in  the right direction.

Thanks for the clarification, Rob, but I am not sure that I am "confused" regarding "the (generally) accepted technique for frying spices".  My point was that KD1 (which was my breakthrough buy, many many years ago) does /not/ require any frying of the spices (they are cooked in a mixture of base and oil, in which the base predominates) and even KD2 is by no means consistent in requiring the frying of spices.  So it seems to me that the frying of spices, even if a generally accepted technique, is /not/ essential for the making of a good BIR curry,  and I was just interested in trying to stimulate a debate as to why it is now regarded as the sine qua non of BIR cuisine.

You are, of course, quite correct that the recipe that I used does not appear in KD1, but it is directly derived from her Chicken Curry / Chicken Madras / Chicken Vindaloo continuum.

** Phil.

[Kashmiri Bob]

From what I can make out, reading what you have said, you have made a great curry without frying the spices in oil at the start, and you made a similar type of dish, but with frying the spices. How did the latter turn out compared to the former? Or I am talking gibberish?

Rob     

[Garabi Army]

Phil, it is said our taste buds change every seven years, maybe you have reached a seven year mark 

Cheers,
Ken

[Peripatetic Phil]

From what I can make out, reading what you have said, you have made a great curry without frying the spices in oil at the start, and you made a similar type of dish, but with frying the spices. How did the latter turn out compared to the former? Or I am talking gibberish?

No, you are 50% correct.  I have made a great curry (many times) wthout frying the spices.  And I have made some indisputably awful curries when I have fried the spices.  Based purely on personal experience, I just cannot go with the received wisdom that frying the spices is (a) indispensable, or (b) even necessary to make a good authentic BIR-style curry.  On the other hand, I am sufficiently old to remember how a British curry was made ("add curry powder to water containing meat and sultanas; bring to the boil; cook until ready; serve, and pretend you like the results"), so I fully accept that oil /is/ a vital ingredient -- it is simply the /frying/ of the spices in the oil that I do not accept is essential.  Discuss.

** Phil.