Author Topic: Water levels not rising in Australia  (Read 2191 times)

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Offline Bob-A-Job

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Re: Water levels not rising in Australia
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2020, 01:48 PM »
A CME is presumably a coronal mass ejection, Bob ?

Yes.

They happen fairly regularly and 'often' in geological terms.  The solar energetic particles strike the Earth with such force that it ionizes the atmosphere, creating a vast cloud of energetic electrons that bounce around inside the atmosphere destroying electronics and fusing conductive wires everywhere.

The 2012 event missed us by a hair's breadth
The 1989 event caused the Quebec blackout
The 1859 event destroyed much of the Victorian telegraph network in Europe and North America

We have just about covered the planet since then with networks that rely on power.

Now imagine a planet with no electricity or electrical systems.... no communication, no transport, no energy, no water, no hospitals, no drugs, only a few days of food, farming set back to the middle ages, etc.

I won't sugar coat it, it is a very very scary thought but would probably be the only way to make a Global difference to Climate change and allow Nature to take the planet back under control however I won't pray to the Sun for one but it would be poetic justice if we won't heed the warnings and do something about only for the Sun to reset the balance.  Yes, we can shield electrical systems and infrastructure from it and be safe but again, that reduces profit and is also seen as 'unnecessary'.

I fear that for all our hubris, we will never learn.
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Offline George

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Re: Water levels not rising in Australia
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2020, 02:34 PM »
Couldn't the Australian authorities have guarded against such a catastrophe  by setting up fire breaks every so far?


Offline livo

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Re: Water levels not rising in Australia
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2020, 09:28 PM »
I don't think you understand the magnitude of this event George, or the size of the continent and the fact that it is mainly wilderness that is burning.  Of course it is impacting wherever this wilderness adjoins developed farmland and communities.  These fires are jumping rivers and spotting from ember attacks 10 - 15 km ahead of the fire front. No amount of firebreaks, even if it were possible, would do much to halt the progress of these fires.

The smoke is now across the Pacific Ocean in Chile.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/the-photos-that-sum-up-australias-horrific-unprecedented-bushfire-crisis/news-story/0cb198e61d52a9cb4289232ff3b0ab7c
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Offline livo

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Online Peripatetic Phil

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Re: Water levels not rising in Australia
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2020, 09:33 AM »
Whilst not seeking to play down the seriousness of the catastrophe, I would mention that a Radio 4 programme yesterday did cast doubt on the methodology by which that figure was derived.  It is, essentially, an extrapolation based on very limited sampling, and assumes that 100% of the wildlife previously resident in the affected areas have died, whereas (as the programme pointed out) the indigenous species have evolved to expect fire as a routine part of life, and have evolved escape strategies accordingly.  Even the death of one koala, or one possum, or whatever, is one too many, but we should not accept the figure quoted as necessarily being accurate.
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Offline livo

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Re: Water levels not rising in Australia
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2020, 10:30 AM »
Phil, I would agree with a large part of that, under normal circumstances.  While there may be some doubt about exact numbers, these are not what anybody considers normal circumstances.  The current fires are unlike anything these animals would ever have encountered before. Quite simply, inescapable.  Multiple massive and intense fires spreading rapidly in all directions, spotting ahead of themselves and joining to create mega-fires. Fleeing one fire is taking them straight into the path of another and another until they are trapped with nowhere left to flee to. Along with that is the intense heat and lack of oxygen in the air.  4 days ago the area burnt was over 8.4 million hectares, over 1/3 the size of Britain and it is far from over.  Also recognize that the numbers estimated includes reptiles and smaller, slower tree living marsupials which don't have the same ability to flee as large kangaroo.

"WWF-Australia estimates around 1,25 billion animals may have been killed directly or indirectly from fires that have burnt 8.4 million hectares across Australia (equivalent to the whole of country of Austria).

These figures have been calculated using methodology that estimates the impacts of land clearing on Australian wildlife and extrapolates upon the science of Prof Chris Dickman from The University of Sydney."

Who is going to quibble over whether or not the figure is 100% accurate? Even 50% accuracy is still a complete disaster.
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Online Peripatetic Phil

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Re: Water levels not rising in Australia
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2020, 11:16 AM »
Who is going to quibble over whether or not the figure is 100% accurate? Even 50% accuracy is still a complete disaster.

I'm not quibbling, Livo — I love all wildlife, and the thought of just one innocent creature burning to death, unable to escape, fills me with horror, and I agree that "50% accuracy is still a complete disaster" — in view of the possible numbers involved, I would put that as "even one percent is still a complete disaster", but I do think it irresponsible of Professor Dickman to quote figures of "in excess of one billion" when there is so much uncertainty involved in the calculation.  The pictures are heart-breaking, and I would be the last person on earth to suggest that the good Professor is making a mountain out of a mole-hill, but I would think better of him if he also placed some error bounds on his calculation.
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Offline livo

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Re: Water levels not rising in Australia
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2020, 11:54 AM »
No argument from me. I wasn't suggesting it was you quibbling Phil. Just a turn of phrase in general.  The fact is we won't know the full implications for some time and all we need to know is the number is huge.
My eldest daughter spent today volunteering in a warehouse in Sydney with 300 other people and their sewing machines sewing survival garments and pouches for injured and orphaned animals. It's on again tomorrow. There are workshops where people are building habitat survival boxes for possums and tons of carrots and sweet potatoes are being air dropped to feed critical colonies of wallaby.
Possibly the most amazing thing is the apparent knowledge and unusual behaviour exhibited by some koala. These wild animals seem to know that humans can help them. They willingly seek out and approach for aid and comfort.
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Online Peripatetic Phil

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Re: Water levels not rising in Australia
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2020, 12:40 PM »
No argument from me. I wasn't suggesting it was you quibbling Phil. Just a turn of phrase in general.  The fact is we won't know the full implications for some time and all we need to know is the number is huge.  My eldest daughter spent today volunteering in a warehouse in Sydney with 300 other people and their sewing machines sewing survival garments and pouches for injured and orphaned animals. It's on again tomorrow. There are workshops where people are building habitat survival boxes for possums and tons of carrots and sweet potatoes are being air dropped to feed critical colonies of wallaby.
It is both heart-warming and reassuring to know that people do care, and are willing to help in this way.

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Possibly the most amazing thing is the apparent knowledge and unusual behaviour exhibited by some koala. These wild animals seem to know that humans can help them. They willingly seek out and approach for aid and comfort.

That is indeed amazing, and there is at least one (probably many many) videos on Youtube of animals seeking help in such circumstances, and even of wild animals helping other animals of other species ...

** Phil.
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Offline Ghoulie

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Re: Water levels not rising in Australia
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2020, 03:19 PM »
Meanwhile in Oz - cretins set fire to a quokka - as if the problems weren't bad enough.  Drop them into the burning forests.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-32346835
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