Topic: Why we cannot produce that missing taste ?

[joshallen2k]

Interesting observation!

You say that using the restaurant's base, you get 100% BIR taste.

If there was some industry-wide "secret ingredient" you can bet that someone would have spilled the beans by now.

You say the ingredients in the restaurant base are the usuals, but what about the colour, consistency, spicing, ingredient balance...

How would you describe the "best flavour"?

[JerryM]

it's a real good question isn't it.

i'd love to get a bought base to compare against - my comparisons are against the finished dish.

i don't believe there is anything missing in the knowledge of this site - ie we have all the pieces of the jigsaw it's just down to getting them in the right places.

the biggies for me have been:
1) adding whole spices to the base and removing prior to blending
2) spiced oil
3) BE's blending of the garlic/ginger
4) the pan & use of gas
5) proportion of onion/bulk veg

maybe we need a top 10 or 20 of members key attributes

[haldi]

You say the ingredients in the restaurant base are the usuals, but what about the colour, consistency, spicing, ingredient balance...

I can get my base to look identical
It's a yellowy colour with flecks of spice in
If you put a teaspoon of it on a plate, it stays as a little puddle with a "halo" of oil and water

How would you describe the "best flavour"?

It hits you at the back of the throat then you can smell it's aroma
Sort of like cooked celery or cooked cabbage or cooked pepper
But it seems to be none of them

Perhaps it comes down to the old advice I have been given, many times.
The base cannot be replicated scaled down.

Yes, I have made several times 100% copies of BIR curries, but only when I use a bought curry base

it's a real good question isn't it.

i'd love to get a bought base to compare against - my comparisons are against the finished dish.

Hi Jerry
         When you buy your next curry, just ask for it
Say you'll pay, none of the takeaways have ever refused
Just say you like to cook curries too
I got charged about ?3.00 (which is the same price as extra curry sauce)
When you have it, freeze some
Then you can compare, your next curry gravy

[joshallen2k]

The base cannot be replicated scaled down

I've heard this before first hand. How big are their pots? I know there was a 30-onion recipe here for a base.

Too be honest to rule out the "scale" issue, I'd be more than happy to try it, even if it meant I needed to buy a massive pot!

Really wish this line of enquiry could be ruled in or out 

[JerryM]

Haldi,

will have to pluck up courage and ask on next visit. i time the TA to having base so i can do a side by side so having a base would be even better.

Josh,

i too think something has gone a miss in the scaling - i'm beginning to think there is too much bulk veg (pepper, carrot etc) and not enough onion.

i don't believe for a minute that a replica can't be scaled down - i think it?s more about chefs not writing anything down and relying on sight, taste and experience.

[adriandavidb]

It's funny how things sometimes seem to go round in circles, the KD base was onion with no carrot and pepper, AND blended garlic/ginger also!  People seem to be coming back to this idea!

I keep trying to add carrot and pepper to my base but everytime I leave it out, the result seems better!

I think I may also go back to belnding garlic/ginger and adding it to the 'boil' stage, rather than fryig it in later, like KD, and more latterly BE!

[haldi]

The base cannot be replicated scaled down

I've heard this before first hand. How big are their pots? I know there was a 30-onion recipe here for a base.

I've tried a 20 onion version
The only difference I noticed was how mild the spices became
But shortly after that, I saw a takeaway kitchen using the oil, from cooking poppadoms, being used as the main oil for the curry base.

I've not tried that yet
But I've got to cook maybe 40 popadoms to get that oil
I've also seen some of the old curry gravy going into the new curry gravy
I don't want to end up with litres & litres of substandard gravy.

There are so many random factors, I am beginning to think that it can't be done at home
Before attempting another huge base, I want to be fairly certain that I have got a near perfect recipe

Seriously, if you compare a bought curry base to what you make at home, it is not the same.
I'm fed up with that, I want to get it right.
Every day of every week, thousands of curry houses are making this sauce.
I want to do it too

[JerryM]

I've also seen some of the old curry gravy going into the new curry gravy

i'm sold on oil reclaim due to the effect of spiced oil at frying stage. the important requirement though seems to be to put the leftover reclaimed oil into the next base batch - the oil from the 1st base is not spiced enough. just taste the oil from a TA - that's what i aim for.

i regularly see the chef at my local TA put the surplus oil from the main dish back into the pot.

i'd draw the line on using base though - particularly for us home cooks as we are not making base daily so ours would not be as fresh.

Seriously, if you compare a bought curry base to what you make at home, it is not the same.

based on this fact then we clearly need to work on the base as we clearly have no chance producing the curry taste.

Haldi - have u tried the CRO2 development base - it has only onion as veg and the results are amazingly good given it's simplicity. i add cardamom, bay, anise whole spices, double the onions, only turmeric and paprika for the spices and triple the tom puree http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2368.0. for my next go i'm thinking of adding some bulk veg but in much smaller proportion than our typical site bases. i also have adopted your cooking technique (time & water vol).

[haldi]

based on this fact then we clearly need to work on the base as we clearly have no chance producing the curry taste.

Haldi - have u tried the CRO2 development base - it has only onion as veg and the results are amazingly good given it's simplicity

Thanks Jerry,I've calmed down a bit now
This is really starting to get to me
I haven't tried the CR02 base yet
I want to try a full size one
I want to knock this problem on the head, once and for all
I believe if the base can be made, then the curries will easily follow
I saw some extra curry sauce being made the other night
Do you know how easy it was to make?
Chef put a few ladles of curry gravy in a pan along with a spoon of spice
He stirred it in and left it gently heating for five minutes while he sat down
That was it!
It was done
We know the spice mix
The "secret" is the gravy
I'm doing a little curryhouse research tomorrow before getting a big bag of onions for the weekend!!

[JerryM]

i'm a real fan of curry sauce and make it more than anything else - whenever i'm in a restaurant i have it as a madras hot with a keema naan as a starter - brill.

i'm going to do another batch of the adapted CRO2 but with the smaller proportion of the non onion veg and will let u know how it goes.

Derek Dansak has just reminded me to try a green chilli - punctured and removed before blending - so will include this as well.