Topic: BIR missing taste its all to do with OLD OIL

[artistpaul]

Following on from a post a few months ago by Haldi regarding his use of old oil, here are my observations

Hi Haldi

A perfect post

 ( I posted something similiar a while ago but it seemed not to click with members? )

AND its something Ive been doing for many months now too, even before I read your post.

Im living in Turkey now but have been cooking Indian and Asian food for years

I ALWAYS make my base from 50% Old oil & 50% new

I get mine from a Fried Chicken fast takeaway joint here, just when its getting nice and dark in colour, just before they get rid of it

Exactly like you do.

Ive no problem getting BIR taste now EVERY time

And to answer  this question or comment I see from other members re your original  post '' Im sure Indian Restaurants dont go around Chicken Takeaways etc scavenging waste / old oil '' the answer is easy - they dont have to,
All Indian restaurants have a deep fat frier for doing Bhagies, poppadoms etc = this is their source of old oil

Members cannot replicate this oil at home as its the sheer volume of cooking that does the trick.
Dont believe me? Try cooking fresh oil for long enough yourself  with enough food items in a batch of oil & see if you can get it to turn almost black. I dont think so. It will have turned rancid from age before that happens.

Old restaurant oil is relatively young and thus fresh, its the volume of cooking that does the business to the oil.

Just try it and you will see.

Just dont take  or use old oil that has had fish cooked in it aswell, that WONT work

Smell it, if its savoury and turned almost black, its perfect

Dont be skeptical, first try it, then report back!

[chriswg]

Hi Paul

I haven't tried it but I am very open minded when it comes to trying new ideas. The problem for me is that I have cooked in a BIR kitchen and had a private lesson by the head chef who answered all my questions. One of the first was whether they use fresh oil or if the use old stuff from the fryers. he sounded almost offended that I had asked such a question. They only use fresh clean oil in every stage of the process.

Now that's not to say that old oil trick doesn't work. My theory is that the BIR taste comes from an almost burnt taste. In the case of the BIR (and those with 8 KW home burners) that flavour is achieved by the flames licking up the sides of the pan and semi-flambeeing the curry. I think using old oil does the same job but without the need of such a powerful burner.

The most important thing is that you have a method that works for you and hopefully will work for other members if they give it a go. I dont have a big burner at home so I'll be giving this a go as soon as I can find a source of oil!

[Derek Dansak]

There must be a way of making oil that has some of the right properties at home? some members must have oldish oil from all those bhajis? we need some confirmation. what about old chip oil. i have plenty of that.

[Derek Dansak]

If this forum cannot agree and replicate or disprove this old oil theory then whats the point of it all? i have no experience of making bhajis and popadums as i have been too busy with madras, rogan josh and jalfrezzi etc. i think i need to learn how to make them , and then start building up some old oil for testing purposes. how many members have tried using old oil they have managed to produce at home?

[Cory Ander]

If this forum cannot agree and replicate or disprove this old oil theory then whats the point of it all.....how many members have tried using old oil they have managed to produce at home?

Hi DD,

There are several existing threads on replicating the oil. 

Here's one of them (with links to others):  http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3295.0

I believe it can be "synthesised, why not?! 

In fact I am busy filtering some right this very moment.  It appears promising (i.e. it smells and looks good).  If you hold onto your horses, for a short while, I'll post a photo and the procedure I used to make it (in the thread I referenced). 

[Panpot]

Guys I love the fact that we are all on the search for the Holy Grail and that we continue to find all manner of ideas to get us closer and old oil does make sense to me.

Like Chriswig I had the experience of being in the kitchens at The Ashoka with the head chef who showed me everything. He only used a little oil from the top of the base sauce or from the bunjarra.

The other night back in The Glasgow area I had a Dopiazza from my local TA that has an open plan layout so you can more or less see everything.

The chef uses an aluminium pan that has just been used for another curry however he didn't seem to use oil he started with the garlic/ginger paste and tomato paste with a little water from a pan of pre cooked chicken. I assume there is enough oil in the paste to get things started.

As we also know having some flame licking around and constantly scraping the burning sides down into the curry adds flavour and smell too.

I also noticed a huge plastic tub of Khyber brand Ghee though didn't see it or any oil going into my dish that night. Cheers Panpot

[JerryM]

My theory is that the BIR taste comes from an almost burnt taste. In the case of the BIR (and those with 8 KW home burners) that flavour is achieved by the flames licking up the sides of the pan and semi-flambeeing the curry. I think using old oil does the same job but without the need of such a powerful burner.

I agree with this. when i tried the old oil it was not jet black (pretty dark brown i'd describe it as) and i'm sure not as good for the job as what haldi & artistPaul have used (i used oil from my 2nd fryer which is used to cook bhajis & chicken).

what it did do was have a stark effect on the finished dish. i felt i almost got a double helping and was not good in anyway at all. i actually hated the taste. it was nothing like BIR.

I do feel using curry gravy oil for cooking does add an extra depth. it's not essential though if all the other pieces of the jigsaw are in place - this week i'd run out of curry oil and used olive oil for the 2nd time - not bad at all. not top notch but not bad.

[Cory Ander]

I'll post a photo and the procedure I used to make it (in the thread I referenced). 

Posted here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3295.msg34667;topicseen#msg34667

[adriandavidb]

Not trying to be a party pooper here, but oil that that has been reheated many times times changes chemically and can become EXTREMELY unhealthy.

We all know that saturated fat is (generally) unhealthy; trans-fats (i.e. hydrogenated vegtable oils), VERY unhealthy; poly-unsaturated oils (eg sunflower), are to some extent "a-healthy" (neither good nor bad); and mono-unsaturated oils (eg olive) relatively healthy.

However, the normally 'neutral' polyunsaturates such as sunflower oil become very bad for you after only being heated to smoking-point ONCE, let alone on countless occasions!

The 'healthy-ness' ranking of the various oils and fats changes markedly when considering whether or not they have been heated!

I have read that olive oil does not become particularly unhealthy after heating, so I may be tempted to try Jerry's suggestion of using it in curry; I've only been put-off in the past by reports that it does not taste good in curry - although I use it all the time in 'Med' type food such as spag bol etc.  Jerry's report that it is OK gives a new light on this.

At present I use groundnut oil for curry: it's 'cold healthyness' ranking puts it slightly below olive, but healthier than most; and according to the scientific literature, heating does not have quite the negative impact on it that it does on sunflower oil, for example.

Now I enjoy deep fried BIR stuff as much as everyone else on here, and I'm sure many are aware of what I've said above; but it is worthwhile knowing about this.....

[PaulP]

From what I've read the post above from adriandavidb is correct.

The relatively healthy poly-unsaturates can turn nasty when repeatedly heated. These oils include sunflower and canola (rapeseed) which are cheap and popular.

I'm no health freak being a smoker and drinker but I won't be adding to my bad habits by using ancient takeaway oil.

PaulP - off for a smoke now