Topic: MDB’s Birmingham Balti Gravy 100% Clone Al Frash Balti Restaurant MKII

[Secret Santa]

I do find that the MK1 version of the base gives superior results to the simplified MK11 version.

Yes I'd have to agree. I've only done one batch of each version but I'd definitely go back to the original three pot method next time.

[Secret Santa]

Did I find the curry “bland”?  Well this really does depend on one’s interpretation of “bland”.  For me this would suggest lacking in flavour, having no depth or body and lacking in any appeal.  Did I experience this when I worked my way through the dish?  All I can say is that I had managed to produce a tasty medium curry that I would be more than happy to cook and serve to any lover of a basic curry dish and be confident that they would enjoy it.  My taste in BIR has changed very little over the many years and I look for strong flavours as well as heat.  Whilst this is tame by comparison to what I normally eat, I enjoyed the flavours contained in the dish, its sweetness and the moreish aftertaste.  I will cook it again and see if I experience the same flavours and satisfaction as I did on this first occasion.  Whilst I’m not sitting on the fence, I can’t rave over the flavours that the “Birmingham Balti” contains ...
Having just polished of the other night’s vindaloo cooked with this base, I do certainly have to agree this is a quality base and most definitely will not disappoint anybody that takes the trouble to make it.

You couched it in slightly different terms to me but essentialy you're still saying it's bland by the standard of normal BIR but has virtue when considered on its own merits. So I think we fully concur in reality. Definitely give the original version of the base a go next time though.

[Kashmiri Bob]

Did I find the curry “bland”?  Well this really does depend on one’s interpretation of “bland”.  For me this would suggest lacking in flavour, having no depth or body and lacking in any appeal.  Did I experience this when I worked my way through the dish?  All I can say is that I had managed to produce a tasty medium curry that I would be more than happy to cook and serve to any lover of a basic curry dish and be confident that they would enjoy it.  My taste in BIR has changed very little over the many years and I look for strong flavours as well as heat.  Whilst this is tame by comparison to what I normally eat, I enjoyed the flavours contained in the dish, its sweetness and the moreish aftertaste.  I will cook it again and see if I experience the same flavours and satisfaction as I did on this first occasion.  Whilst I’m not sitting on the fence, I can’t rave over the flavours that the “Birmingham Balti” contains ...
Having just polished of the other night’s vindaloo cooked with this base, I do certainly have to agree this is a quality base and most definitely will not disappoint anybody that takes the trouble to make it.

You couched it in slightly different terms to me but essentialy you're still saying it's bland by the standard of normal BIR but has virtue when considered on its own merits. So I think we fully concur in reality. Definitely give the original version of the base a go next time though.

Dave, if the base has come out even remotely resembling a typical BIR gravy (I suspect it has from your account) you won't get anywhere near the Birmingham Balti.  You mentioned the ingredient ratios.  This is where things start making no sense for me.  How can Mick's base be similar / not unlike, for example, the Zaal gravy?  I use this as a reference as it's a three-stager, and recall you rate it.  Comparing the recipes it looks inconceivable they could produce any similarity whatsoever.  The ratios, spices, Ackni stock prep.  I don't know where to start, but 60 g cassia and 3 whole star anise in a 1 kg onion base! Upscale/downscale everything (for either) does not add up.  These bases are polar opposites.

So, it looks like another botch, imo. I am sorry to have to tell you this.  But there is still hope.  Like you I like a hot curry. The Birmingham Balti though.  Medium/Madras heat, not more.  Exquisite.  The Holy Grail.  Mick's recipes, no futher additions.  MKI version.  I think MKII is there to help forum members struggling with the base, to focus on the Akhni stock, which needs to be right, no if's, not buts, it's where things are most likely to go wrong. 60 g cassia. Hard fry the powdered spices (the fun bit).  You know how to do this.  Burner dependent.  It's 90 - 120 secs when up to speed on my hob.  As Moike used to say, no baghar, no taste. 

Rob 

[Kashmiri Bob]

Forgot to add.  Set the base chilli heat level with the optional MKI 2 tsp chilli powder.  1 tbsp Kashmiri powder will add a little more heat, and a lot of colour. Make the fresh G/G paste the night before. Get the powdered spices/methi mixed when the veg and A/stock are on the go. Rubbed, with your fingers.  Easy, a couple of minutes.

Rob   

[livo]

I doubt that CH botched his MkII gravy.  It really isn't that hard and even the MkI version is no big deal.  The gravy does have aspects that are outside what you might expect from a very "normal" BIR base gravy, but essentially it is a base gravy, and it is a really good one.  I've made far more complicated base gravy and Hotel Style gravies than this one.

On the subject of the basic Balti Chicken being bland, for mine, it was never the intention to imply that the dish was bad.  It wasn't. I enjoyed it and I cooked it more than once.  I just found that compared to the usual depth of flavour and richness that I'd come to expect from standard BIR dishes, and curry in general, it just lacked that oomph. This was very easily remedied and the resulting dishes with additional flavouring were excellent.  This is why it will most likely become my go to base gravy from now on.  It really works.

Now, we also have CH in this instance, who has not experienced the real deal as sold in the triangle.  For myself, Santa and now CH, who have not tried an Al Frash Balti other than self-prepared, it is hard to judge if it is close to the target or not.  If you say it is Rob (and Mick of course), and we aren't botching it, then I just don't think I understand the fuss about it.  If I went to Birmingham and had it, would I enjoy it?  I'd hope so.

Ah!! Phew.  It's good to be back.

[Kashmiri Bob]

I doubt that CH botched his MkII gravy.  It really isn't that hard and even the MkI version is no big deal.  The gravy does have aspects that are outside what you might expect from a very "normal" BIR base gravy, but essentially it is a base gravy, and it is a really good one.  I've made far more complicated base gravy and Hotel Style gravies than this one.

On the subject of the basic Balti Chicken being bland, for mine, it was never the intention to imply that the dish was bad.  It wasn't. I enjoyed it and I cooked it more than once.  I just found that compared to the usual depth of flavour and richness that I'd come to expect from standard BIR dishes, and curry in general, it just lacked that oomph. This was very easily remedied and the resulting dishes with additional flavouring were excellent.  This is why it will most likely become my go to base gravy from now on.  It really works.

Now, we also have CH in this instance, who has not experienced the real deal as sold in the triangle.  For myself, Santa and now CH, who have not tried an Al Frash Balti other than self-prepared, it is hard to judge if it is close to the target or not.  If you say it is Rob (and Mick of course), and we aren't botching it, then I just don't think I understand the fuss about it.  If I went to Birmingham and had it, would I enjoy it?  I'd hope so.

Ah!! Phew.  It's good to be back.

.

Welcome back livo.  Good post.  Got me thinking.  Realised I have taken my eye of the ball lately, perhaps in part due to the forum being down.  I managed to botch a MKI.  Didn't think about it too much at the time.  Made a few of curries, still have some base to use.  Not bad at all, but this batch is no use whatsoever in terms of a making a Birmingham Balti. It's light years off. Occurred to me that If this had been my first attempt at Mick's recipe, I would be describing it pretty much in line with your opinions.  But this was batch number 10.  I will post my thoughts on where it went wrong in the MKI thread.  No surprise really, I think it was the Akhni stock, in fact I am almost certain of it.

Rob

[livo]

Thanks KB.  I for one will be interested to read about where you think you messed up on your last batch.  I haven't cooked a curry in a while as I've been enjoying the fresh seafood that summer brings to us. Over the last few weeks, the Woolworths Supermarket closest to my home has been selling short-dated Crystal Bay Prawns at absolute bargain prices.  They have been marked down to half-price and better which is not too much higher than I was paying for good prawns 30 years ago.  Consequently, I've been gorging on them and good fish.  As well as that I've been working on my smoked brisket beef and short ribs, Texas BBQ style. 

However, it is about time to do another gravy and give it another bash.  My family has had a long enough break away from it.

The years roll by very quickly and this year marks 4 years since I did my last bulk cook for my wife's work and her focus country of study is once again India.  So, this year when I do the food preparation for Indian food day for her, I will be using this base.  It will be very interesting to see how it goes in a bulk preparation.  I'll need to do a few trial runs to ensure I've got it and the dishes working properly.

[Secret Santa]

I managed to botch a MKI ... I think it was the Akhni stock, in fact I am almost certain of it.

I just don't get this. How can you mess up simmering a pot of spices in water for a given length of time?

On my first attempt I forgot to put a lid on it so I suppose that's a bit of a failure but it's still not the end of the world and that's about as far as I can think anyone could mess up this process.

You'll have to set me straight because I'm all ears.

[livo]

Already explained Santa, although I'm not sure it would contribute that much and completely alter the gravy.  KB has explained that his Star Anise and Green Cardies were a bit on the older / possibly stale side.  It is something that could definitely affect the level of flavour provided within the boil / simmer process, but would it cause a batch to be considered botched?  Possible I suppose.  If in doubt of the quality of those spices I would have upped the quantity.  If you were about to toss them anyway, why not just use heaps?  He did also say that he took his eye off the ball so that could do it.

With green cardamom in particular, it is very difficult to obtain really fresh specimens over here.  I see photos of really bright green pods and I can assure you they are nothing like the dull straw-coloured ones we get over here.  Well, they're not that bad, but they certainly aren't the bright green of super fresh and they don't take long in the cupboard to turn to a very unappealing looking specimen.  Star Anise, in my experience, is a very stable spice anyway so I would have far less concern with it.  If in doubt use double or break it up into smaller pieces.

I went out and bought fresh Cassia Bark after my first batch and it made zero difference that I could tell.  Are super fresh spices better?  Of course they are. Will using slightly older spices radically affect the outcome in a base gravy?  I'm sceptical, and as I said, just up the quantity if you're in doubt.  However, that said, if you're relying on the spicing of the gravy to flavour the entire dish, as is the case here, it may well be a contributing factor.

[Kashmiri Bob]

Yes, will probably be able to add a bit more to the MKI discussion, or I might just get on with another batch. The results I have been getting have been so reproducible, until now.  Must have gone into auto-pilot mode in the kitchen.  The memories are starting to come back now though.  Could be that both poor quality spices and over-reduction of the stock played a part.  I will have a few pics somewhere on Amazon Photos.  May help me remember.  I've cut a corner somewhere.  There was definitely something unusual about the stock.  Why was the smell of the cassia so strong? Another thing, the last batch was no where near sweet enough.  Strange, but not overly concerned.  Expect it's a one off.  I will start getting things in this weekend.

I used the last of the base last night to make a chicken curry.  Had a couple of pre-cooked chicken thighs that had the Laziza paste treatment, mint sauce and a goodly amount of ground black pepper, a dash of lime juice.  Very good curry indeed, but obviously not Mick's balti. Couldn't help thinking I may not be the only on here who had made a batch 10, or something very similar.

Was also musing last night about the first time I made Mick's base.  Recall I left it on the hob to cool overnight.  The next morning, whilst stumbling down the staircase, I was greeted by the most complex and delightful whiff.  This is different, I thought.  On opening the kitchen door it was everywhere.  I took the lid off the pan.  The base wasn't blended and I thought I will have a taste of that oil, right now.  Grabbed a spoon and dived in.  Had to sit down afterwards, my head was spinning.  I noticed my hands were shaking, a bit.  Collected my thoughts and an old pair of curtains I have.  They come in handy for sheeting up DIY jobs around the house, including blending base gravy on the kitchen floor.  All done, pan back safely on the hob.  Taste test.  The realisation. I need to sit down again.  I had Mick's recipe printed off on the table in front of me.  I cleared away the clutter with both hands and spread out the pages. 

After reading though a couple of times I shuffled the pages neatly together, whilst checking they were in the correct order.   By now I was now wearing  a big stupid grin.   Needed to take a couple of deep breaths.  Nodding my head for some reason.  Leaned back on my chair, still looking at the white pages.  So there it is, I said out loud.  Quite an emotional time I can tell you.  Something must have got in my eye, as I had to wipe it away.

Rob