Topic: Easy Madras

[curryhell]

Other than those "experts" among us we all know how difficult it is to cook this dish correctly and achieve that madras flavour in spite of the simplicity of the ingredients.  There are probably as many recipes for this curry as there are curry chefs and just as many views as to how a madras should look and taste some hot and some not so hot (this in itself is very subjective) .
Since it has been some 25 years plus since I ordered my one and only ever BIR madras I decided to order one along with my Elaichi North Indian Special the other night just so i could compare it to the madras's i have cooked over the last few months.  I meant to take pictures of it but didn't get round to it.  You know how it is guys :
The colour was lighter than i had produced.  It was more of a yellow/orange colour than the usual red/orange to those i've cooked and seen on the site.  I immediately put this down to the chilli content, believing the colour to give some indication of its strength, rightly or wrongly.  The majority that i have cooked have had at least one rounded spoon of kashmiri chilli powder, normally two or three .
It had the "smell"; that savoury but slightly sweetish curry smell that we all recognise with BIR and TA dishes that we try so hard to achieve.  IMHO the more i smell it, the more i'm convinced its down to the use of wholes spices in some guise and at some stage in the cooking of the base' the normal culprits being Asian bay, cassia bark, cardamon green / black, star anise etc.
I obviously gave it a thorough stir and a good look over before i started to devour it, as all us curry cooks do :.  The texture was only a little thicker than you would expect of a normal madras.  Once i happened across some tiny chopped onion particles the reason for this was clear.  Other than some fresh chopped coriander i didn't find anything else of note.
The first mouthful went in and the immediate flavours were a good prevelent "curry flavour" for want of a better expression which had plenty of depth of spice flavouring and a slightly sweet aftertaste.  I didn't detect any tomato even in the background which is very common with madras although the garlic was evident.  Nor did i detect any sharpness from lemon or any other souring agent.  Once the initial flavour explosion was over the heat started to come through, a very warming but pleasant level that soon subsided. I moved on gradually working my way through the dish.  I had this with plain boiled basmati so nothing interfered with the curry flavours.  I continued to devour the dish, savouring evey mouthful, trying to pick out any more from the flavours.  The fresh coriander was just in the background and complimented the overall taste.  Although I would guess this would be a the lower end of the heat scale for a bog standard madras , by the end of the dish i knew that it definitely contained chilli powder ( amazing ehh?? ) and had a very pleasant amount of heat. 
In spite of this, being different from CT's or Abdul's which tend to be in the middle to top end of the scale, you could tell this curry certainly belonged to the madras family
Would i have the dish again?  Yes i would, once i have tried madras's from three or four other restaurants so i could gauge the variation / consistancy.
But i did enjoy it that much that i attempted to create my own version of it last night, using what little knowledge i have.
The usual ingredients were used: chef's spoon of veg oil, mix powder (2 rounded tsp), one of ordinary chilli ( as kashmiri is unlikely to feature in a BIR or TA).  Rounded tsp of garlic/giner puree, two tbsp of diluted tomato paste, salt, fresh coriander, base etc.  You're all familiar with the method so i won't bore you with that.  To get the sweetness i used a tarka of fried chopped onion (although i think i over did the quantity a little as you can tell from the pics).  In addition, i added a tsp of pureed mango chutney (chef's licence  ;D).  To try and achieve the smell, in went a star anise during the tarka stage, removed before the base was added.
My conclusions: a damn good effort, it definitely more than hinted at the "smell" of what i ate the other night.  Texture wise, over dose of tarka ingredients with no negative affect on taste, just simply on texture which is easily remedied.  Taste wise, very close but the chilli hit happened sooner and was more prolonged   Not that it worried me of course.  But next time, i'll reduce it to a level spoon of chilli powder.  Overall, love Abdul's and CT's madras and will cook them many more times.  But this is a very pleasant alternative and will also appear regularly  
And for the porn fans:

The colouring of the dish is indentical to my TA curry although the texture a little too thick for madras I think





My supper - YUM


I enjoyed every mouthful and look forward to further madras experimentation ;D ;D

[Secret Santa]

The first mouthful went in and the immediate flavours were a good prevelent "curry flavour" for want of a better expression which had plenty of depth of spice flavouring and a slightly sweet aftertaste.  I didn't detect any tomato even in the background which is very common with madras although the garlic was evident.  Nor did i detect any sharpness from lemon or any other souring agent.  Once the initial flavour explosion was over the heat started to come through, a very warming but pleasant level that soon subsided.

Now that's a madras as it should be. I prefer it tomatoey to differentiate it from vindaloo but other than that I couldn't have described it better myself.

None of this tart/bitter taste from Patak's shite or sourness from lemon dressing nonsense.

[curryhell]

Now that's a madras as it should be. I prefer it tomatoey to differentiate it from vindaloo but other than that I couldn't have described it better myself.

I didn't do bad for a non-madras eater then SS? ;D  As i've said i'd reduce the tarka content down somewhat to achieve the "expected" texture and play with the chilli level a little a) to get the pleasant creeping and dissipating heat that i got from the TA b) see what impact it had on the colouring versus heat side of things :

None of this tart/bitter taste from Patak's shite or sourness from lemon dressing nonsense.

The only time i use them is in marinade for tikka and have tried them in seek kebabs too.  As for my curries, I haven't felt the need yet

[beachbum]

Looks great

My favourite Indian Restaurant in North Brisbane, Maharanis, is run not by Bengalis but by people actually from the Madras (Chennai) area.

I was blown away by their lamb madras which contains a lot of coconut milk and is fairly sweet. I expect the red BIR variety is based on North Indian versions?

We cooked a chicken Madras at the curry school I attended and it went like this:

Whole spices in oil, then fry finely chopped onions and green pepper (capsicum) until soft but not browned

Then add the gravy and the precooked chicken, and water until just runny. AIR gravies are more like an onion and tomato based thick paste with the spice mix already incorporated so they need to be diluted, not reduced.

Add the precooked chicken and a little of the stock

Then pile on some Nestle Coconut Cream powder http://www.nestleprofessional.com/australia/en/BrandsAndProducts/Brands/MAGGI_CLASSIC/Pages/MAGGI_Coconut_Milk_Powder_1kg.aspx

and mix in, and simmer the curry for about 15 mins till the oils separate.

It turns out more golden than red. I'm playing with Julian's quick gravy at the moment rather than AIR cooking - I'll have to have a crack at a UK style Madras to CH's recipe. I had a stab at something similar a couple of weeks ago - turned out ok but maybe over lemoned it - I'll forget the fruit next time

[curryhell]

I'll have to have a crack at a UK style Madras to CH's recipe. I had a stab at something similar a couple of weeks ago - turned out ok but maybe over lemoned it - I'll forget the fruit next time

Too much lemon is as bad as too much tomato paste .  I have read several times about the inclusion of almond powder in madras but not coconut.  My belief was that once coconut was added the curry then became a ceylon
Anyway, this post isn't intended as a recipe BB.  I'd suggest you try one of the established madras recipes like CT's, CA's or Abdul's.  If you really want to try this one PM me and i'll be  a little more precise with ingredients, quantities and method ;D,

This thread is well worth a read on the subject of madras too ;D

http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2621.0

[Secret Santa]

Looks great

My favourite Indian Restaurant in North Brisbane, Maharanis, is run not by Bengalis but by people actually from the Madras (Chennai) area.

I was blown away by their lamb madras which contains a lot of coconut milk and is fairly sweet. I expect the red BIR variety is based on North Indian versions?

beachbum the madras is a BIR invention (i.e. it is authentically British, although undoubdtedly derived from a style that may have have originated in Madras, although I doubt it). So, if you ain't eating the BIR madras you're not eating a madras, full stop! - and your additon of green pepper, lemon and coconut pretty much proves the point.   

[joshallen2k]

Agreed. Madras here in Canada sounds much the same... coconut milk, curry leaves... Spicing anywhere from mild to medium.

Can be quite a nice curry, but nothing at all like a BIR Madras.

-- Josh

[curryhell]

Please don't state the obvious, chicken and lamb are like chalk and cheese ;D

Carrying on from last weeks attempt at making a "typical" chicken madras as delivered by one of my local TA's, I decided to have another go with a couple of refinements.  Only problem was that i had no chicken, pre-cooked or otherwise.  The only option was to use some of my covetted pre-cooked "sheep"  ;D

Never having had lamb madras i really had no idea what to expect other than the same basic taste as i got last week with a  slight improvement in texture, having reduced the onions in the tarka and a slight reduction in heat to achieve the same affect as the TA madras.  Obviously, i'd have the taste of lamb rather than the chicken.

So i gathered the few ingredients together.  I didn't use any green pepper in the tarka this time, just a finely chopped heaped tbs of onion and a heaped tsp garlic/ginger paste. I also reduced the chilli powder down to one level tsp.  This week it was C2G's base instead of Zaal's.  This would change the taste a  little but impact more on the colour of the overall dish by making it darker.  The only major change was to add a tbs of "lamb" stock during the final reduction.  I didn't expect a great impact from this other than adding a little something to the sauce.

Here are the ingredients.  i forgot to include the slow cooked "sheep" ;D



I fried the onion with two bits of star anise to give it "the smell" just as last week.  Added the garlic / ginger purree and once things started to colour removed the anise.



Added 2 tbs of diluted tomato paste (yes only two although the pic makes it look like more ) shortly followed by the spice mix, chilli and salt



Quenched this after a bit with two chef spoons of gravy and then added half the base and reduced on high heat.  You can just see the bubbles and erruptions going on through the steam coming off the pan



The first reduction ready to receive the lamb and a tsp of diluted mango chutney followed by the remainder of the base



Reduced this down to the desired consistancy and added the fresh coriander



Now ready to serve



And a close up



Well, it looked the part and had a great lamb smell to it.  The sauce was rich, tasty and had great depth of flavour but what i did notice was that the sauce had taken on the flavour of the lamb  .  Normally when i use chicken the meat takes on the flavour of the sauce .  This was a bit of a surprise for me.  That's why i'd like the lamb madras eaters to describe the curries they've eaten.  I'm desparate to know if this is normally the case with lamb curries.  They seem to work totally different to those made with chicken   Is this the norm?  Having only cooked 3 or 4 curries with lamb i really don't know what to expect :

All information will be greatfully received

[Peripatetic Phil]

A few observations, CH --

1) "The only major change was to add a tbs of "lamb" stock during the final reduction".

Just how concentrated was this lamb stock; do you think that it contributed, at least in part, to the lamb flavour in the finished sauce.

2) The sauce of lamb curry in the 60s/70s either had a lamb flavour (in which case the restaurant was generally good) or it did not (in which case the restaurant was generally poor)

3) I recently cooked a chicken curry using left-over sauce from a lamb curry; the lamb flavour completely dominated the dish, and spoiled what might otherwise have been a pleasant meal.

4) Lamb, in general, has a very distinct smell [1], and 80% of taste /is/ smell; so it is not really surprising that your sauce took on the "flavour" of lamb, although in practice it may really have taken on the smell.

** Phil.
--------
[1] Most Vietnamese do not like lamb for that very reason.

[curryhell]

Thanks for the reply Phil. 
1.The stock used was recovered from the cooking of the lamb.  This was frozen and used to cook a second batch.  So i guess it must be fairly concentrated and did in fact impart a lamb taste to sauce.
2. So for a good 60's 70's style curry mine isn't bad then?? ;D
3. Re mixing of meat stocks, it's a bit like having mint and rosemary gravy with your roast beef . Not to be recommended
4. Hard to disagree with this one.  If i'd have pinched my nose i wouldn't have known what i was eating

Suppose the only real comparison will be to order a lamb madras.
Does this curry malarky never end? :