Topic: Curry Tester's Base Soup + Curry

[JerryM]

Currytester,

agree entirely on your follow up post

if you remember I described the cooking procedure as a method of releasing the natural sugars from the carrots and onions

this is what attracted me to the method. i await your next output with 1/2 the ghee (i felt the rest of the curry was spot on).

interesting that u class madras as sour. i find my std madras to be not as sweet as the BIR taste i'm used to. i've tried adding sugar into the base at cooking stage but this just adds a sickly sweetness not a caramelised.

i also very much like pathia (my fav is UB's - it's the closest to BIR i've come across). i've got enough saffron so will try your recipe out for background understanding.

SNS's post is also adding to the interest in the post - many thanks CT for raising the issue (original post). i'm sure there's learning here and as u say we're only experimenting so no probs if any attempts don't deliver promise at the 1st go.

just 1 last thought what about the vegetable ghee i noticed in the local Asian supermarket (it would sort the cost and veg lobbies)

best wishes,

[currytester]

Have to say I have never tried vegetable ghee but it will be worth a go next time i go to asian supermarket.

For those that are vegetarians and dont want to use chicken stock you can make and add a basic vegetable stock instead.

[George]

The point I am trying to make I suppose is that if you check through most of the base sauce recipes you will find the same or similar ingredients used in each one perhaps with a bit of this and that added.
I have tried and tested most of the base sauces over an extended period of time having started with the curry secret base and used exactly the same curry recipe to test them. My findings are as I describe there is a very marginal difference between "the taste". Today I have tried a comparison between 2 bases Saffron and another - one with chopped tomatoes and one without - the one with suited my taste (or the recipe I am using) slightly better than the one without.The difference was very marginal.
I like you have been striving to make the perfect BIR curry in my case for over 20 years. This site has probably the best and most accurate recipes for stimulating the curry lovers tastebuds. As you can see from the following recipes they all use a version of Onion soup - one even gets it from a can - Check Saffron,New base Sauce recipe (with tomatoes),Rajver (with tomatoes), UB's (lots of extra bits), KD's, Darth's Madras etc etc.
So have a look for yourself - you will see the similarity between recipes but you have to step back to do so.

currrytester

I agree with the thinking and rationale behind your original and subsequent posts. It should be easy, too. I also think that even if the base sauce is a bit too simple and lacking, that it can be improved upon at stage 2, to end up with a superb curry. But at the end of the day, it's accurate recipes which are needed. Nothing else counts. "Talking shop" type debates are interesting but are no substitute for recipes. Do you have any final recipes (base + stage 2) for anything like a madras, korma or CTM which is as good, or better than anything you've ever tasted in a BIR?

Regards
George

[George]

One further thought: someone (Curry Tester I think) suggested that BIRs were unlikley to use anything as costly as green pepper in their base sauce. Whilst I'm sure this is true for run-of-the-mill BIRs, I'm equally sure it doesn't apply to anywhere trying to serve food which is a cut above average.

The cost of adding an ingredient like green pepper might be somewhere around 1p-5p per portion (if that) but the resturant would probably charge 100p-200p or more above the average price of the dish, if they reckon their version tastes better, so I suggest it would be perfectly viable.

Regards
George

[currytester]

Hi George,

You are probably right about the green pepper perhaps being added by some restaurants. However its just my feeling that basically we are are starting off with a vegetable soup mix of onions carrots and celery for this base - the point being that there was a load of what I consider to be twaddle discussing the merits of adding a potato to a base sauce when I felt we were just creating a spiced vegetable soup.

With all due respect if you want to add a green pepper please do so it shouldnt make much difference to the final sauce. The main difference is the method of cooking, the use of ghee and chicken stock.

By the way I made a ctm last night using this base and an adaptation of CA's recipe.

Using the base it was way too rich for me - the CA recipe tastes great but all those calories. Anyway I will make again and adapt for this base

[JerryM]

Currytester,

no real value in this observation (probably obvious to most).

i made your pathia and UB's side by side. I had not cooked mushroom at home in a curry before. i was surprised how i did not think the mushrooms added much - surprised as my fav at fav blati is chicken & mushroom - obviously i?m miles away from there abilities (with mushrooms).

i don?t put lemon in UB's (or madras) so effectively was comparing lemon & sugar v tamarind & cream coconut. for me the tamarind/coconut was closer to BIR (but as always not just quite there but that?s the case for all my dishes albeit UB?s got 3 out of 3 family votes to make again but no mushrooms).

[George]

>You are probably right about the green pepper
>perhaps being added by some restaurants.

To clarify, I consider green pepper as just one of several 'expensive' ingredients which I believe some BIRs may add to their base sauce.

>However its just my feeling that basically
>we are are starting off with a vegetable
>soup mix of onions carrots and celery

Well sort of, but the are many different recipes for vegetable soup, just like there are many recipes for base sauces. And base sauce is not vegetable soup.

>there was a load of what I consider to be
>twaddle discussing the merits of adding a
>potato to a base sauce when I felt we were
>just creating a spiced vegetable soup.

I don't think it helps to use a word like 'twaddle'. And as it happens, I consider potato to be one ingredient on my preferred list of ingredients for base sauce. I certainly wouldn't rule it out.

>With all due respect if you want to add a
>green pepper please do so it shouldnt
>make much difference to the final sauce.

It depends how much one adds of course, but I suggest it can make quite a difference.

>The main difference is the method of cooking,
>the use of ghee and chicken stock.

How do you know? Do you have a truly stunning recipe for a base sauce and final curry? If we all tasted such a dish and agreed it was one of the best curries we've ever tasted, and you were able to demonstrate that was because it included ghee and chicken stock, then your statement might have some credibility. Othwerwise, how can you possibly be so sure?

As I said before, the only thing that counts is recipes which many people agree are special and good in some way. Anything else is mere speculation!

[currytester]

Latest development on what I would now call a true curry base.

I used exactly the same ingredients and quantities except for omitting the celery and adding 1/2 a chopped yellow pepper which was sauteed with the carrots when they were added.

After the puree stage I then added about 200 ml of passata. This time round the ghee rose to the surface correctly giving the ability to spoon it off and produce a healthier curry option if desired.

I then made a variation of CA's CTM

The end result was superb - even my 75 year old mother cleared the lot.

My observations are that the curry base was slightly sweeter and darker because of the passata and pepper. Due to the ghee content the ctm was very rich and can be improved further by substituting coconut milk for the cream and missing out the coconut powder. For the Tikka I used standard Rajah Tandoori Mix - mixed with yoghurt and lemon juice and marinated the chicken for 36 hours - this resulted in melt in your mouth chicken. The curry powder used in the recipe was Rajah medium.....

[JerryM]

now call a true curry base

currytester,

could i please clarify whether u are aiming for a BIR base or a traditional slant on BIR.

where i'm coming from is the use of ghee. since our last discussion i've tried out oil reclaim and found that it gets me much closer to BIR than without (hence my plea http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2713.0.html).

with the changes u've made (add pepper and more tomatoe) i am convinced this will be a spot on "traditional slant BIR" base.

[currytester]

JerryM

In the area I live (just outside Portsmouth) we have hundreds of Indian restaurants to choose from. I use them with different purposes in mind for example we have a very local restaurant that allows you to bring your own booze with no corkage. I would give this a curry rating of 5/10 but expense rating of 12/10 so we use it for big family parties. Then we have some good takeaways and restaurants which I would give a variable 7-9/10 depending on which chef is on duty all of which are within a pound of each other in price per meal. Then we have the two really good restaurants where the food is above and beyond everywhere else in taste, variety and quality these I rate at 10/10 however the price of the food is double roughly the average price.

So in answer to your question what I am aiming for is at least the 10/10 level achieved by these two top restaurants hence the use of slightly different ingredients and quantities. This is also probably why the taste of the pathia was different to what you are used to.

On the subject of mushrooms I'm sorry I didnt explain how they should be cooked. Heat a pan to high heat and add a splash of olive oil and a knob of butter. When the butter is foaming add the thickly sliced mushrooms - dont be tempted at this stage to add any more oil as they seem to soak it all up - stir fry the mushrooms until lightly brown now add a chef's pinch of salt and a shake of ground black pepper - reduce the heat slightly but continue to stir fry. The moisture from the mushrooms and the oil should start leaking out into the pan - turn the heat back to high and reduce the liquid so it is fully evaporated - you have now intensified the taste of the mushrooms. At this stage if you like add a little garlic and you will have beautiful garlic mushrooms. Next time you have a full english breakfast try this method with field mushrooms but leave out the garlic. When fully cooked add to the pathia at the last minute before serving.

If you just throw mushrooms into any liquid - you will lose the flavour as it dissipates throughout the liquid - use the method above and the flavour gets doubly sealed into the mushrooms and doesnt get a chance of leaking out. The result a chicken and mushroom pathia rather than a chicken and grey lump pathia.

The use of reclaimed oil or ghee is now achievable with the new recipe - I reckon I got almost 100% separation with the last base made. Now on this subject basically what is created is a spiced oil. Any spiced oil added to a dish improves the flavour I make a chilli oil and a spiced oil for chinese dishes which I use one or other in place of ordinary groundnut oil.

We only had the CTM on saturday night and mother wanted it again tonight however next saturday I am going to further improve the recipe by doing her blades chicken tikka which seems to be getting rave reviews.