Topic: italian food topic

[goncalo]

Omitting either will effect the dish as both add a dimension of flavour that is important to it,

But he has to change something, so what did you expect? I've come to the conclusion that it must be human nature to risk spoiling a recipe (previously said to be first class) by altering it. I'm sorry to say it's a key reason why I seldom post recipes.

if you limited yourself from posting useless snarky remarks more than you limit yourself from posting recipes, I'm sure your contributions would be valued. I can understand where you are coming from, but as I said I don't like anchovies and I'm short of celery. What in that statement does it make you feel that I am purposely going out my way to change a recipe?

If you read my contributions to this forum, you will see that I am not supportive of customizing recipes for the sake of it. I do it occasionally, but have at least done most recipes to spec before I experiment and if not, it's simply because I'm looking for something specific and only need a "base guidance" as to how to cook a specific dish.

[goncalo]

Thanks Axe sounds delicious, apart from anchovies and I'll also ommit celery because I don't have it in stock. I trust the remaining ones will still do a great work.

Omitting either will effect the dish as both add a dimension of flavour that is important to it, especially celery which is essential in an Italian sofrito. You could use Worcestershire Sauce in place of the anchovies or use a little re-hydrated dried porcini and the hydrated liquid.

Thanks for the tip on worcestershire sauce. How much WS would you use yourself? I might run to the shop to pick up some celery. I'm only starting the dish in a couple hours.

Oh, and would you do any pre marinating of the meat or seasoning, etc?

[Peripatetic Phil]

I've never experienced a smoked anchovy only the regular cured either stored in oil or salted. I don't know too much about them to really comment, i'm afraid. Wiki mentions the milder white version which is in vinegar, was this what you had?

I would certainly go along with "the milder white version", but I am pretty confident that they were in oil (vinegar on a boiled egg sandwich does not sound like a good combination to me).  I will look more closely next time I am in the farm shop. 

** Phil.

[spiceyokooko]

That seems highly elaborate. I can't seem to imagine how a star anise would enhance a bolognese - any recipe?

The Star Anise is one of those things where you have to take a leap of faith. I was a bit dubious myself, but when I used one, I realised right away that was one of the flavours that had always been missing from my ragu/bolognese sauces.

All I can say is - try it and see for yourself, but perhaps try 1/2 a Star Anise rather than a whole one. For me Star Anise is the secret component to a real ass kicking bolognese.

Also, funny that you mention minced chicken livers. My grandmother always mixed pork and beef when making bolognese and the combination of the 2 meats was fantastic!

Chicken livers are key, you can't leave them out otherwise it just becomes another beef in tomato sauce. I think the ratio of minced meat to chicken liver is about 2:1. I also make mine with a mixture of veal, pork and beef mince.

My bolognese goes into lasagne which I'd say is probably my all time favourite dish.

I'll look up the recipe for you.

[spiceyokooko]

I've never experienced a smoked anchovy only the regular cured either stored in oil or salted.

The only anchovies I've come across are the salted/brined ones in oil, which are dark brown and quite salty, the cured ones in oil which are still silverish and the fresh ones 'cooked' in an acid such as lemon juice/vinegar marinade.

[spiceyokooko]

Here's my slightly modified Elizabeth David beef ragu:

Ingredients:

8 oz minced beef (or a combination of beef/veal/pork)
4 oz minced chicken livers
3 oz pancetta

28 grams = 1 ounce

1 carrot finely diced
1 Onion finely chopped
1/2 celery stalk finely chopped
3 Tablespoons double concentrate tomato puree
1 wineglass white wine
2 wineglasses stock (beef or chicken)
Butter/Olive oil

Grating of nutmeg
Salt and black pepper
Star Anise

Method:

Seal and brown the pancetta in about 1/2 ounce of butter and some olive oil, add finely chopped onion, carrot and celery and fry until light brown, add mince and brown evenly. Add chopped/minced chicken livers and after 2 or 3 minutes, tomato puree and then white wine. Season with salt (be aware of how much salt the pancetta imparts) and pepper and a grating of nutmeg, add stock and 1/2 star anise, cover pan and simmer for about 45 minutes to an hour.

When done optionally add a small swirl of single cream.

[fried]

There's as many ragu recipes as there are Italian families. I've never seen either anchovies or star anise used; that's not to say that neither are authentic or wouldn't make a fantastic recipe.

I personally use freshly grated nutmeg and cook it in the oven for up to 3h.

I've seen milk used in some recipes. I was given my recipe in that time honoured fashion, I.e.  no exact quantities or exact ingredients but as a general set of guidelines from which to make a traditional recipe.

[fried]

And as Spicey mentioned only using white wine.

[curryhell]

Next time i need to make up some bolognese, i'll definitely give these two a go.  The ingredients certainly make for solid foundations to a superb tasting finished dish.

@ goncalo

  ;D

[natterjak]

It's not what you could call authentic Italian but there are two ingredients which I find add amazing flavour to a ragu sauce. 1. An oxo cube sprinkled in. 2. Spoonful of Asda umami paste.